Talk:Anti-Slavic sentiment

Discussion: Slavophobia and Slavophilia

I am not of the view that the introductory paragraph on the main page makes correct statements about the relationship between slavophobia and slavophilia. Slavophobia is a form of prejudice and racism. It's opposite would therefore be Slavonic fascist movements that promote slavonic superiority. Slavophilia is love or enjoyment of cultural heritage of the slavonic peoples which is inclusive, not exclusive: ie. doesn't have to be only love of one's own culture, it can be, and has been, love of slavonic cultures by people who are not ethnically slavic - example of this might be Johnny Weir who repeatedly pronounced himself a "Russophile." Commonly, it is mistakenly expressed as love or appreciation of "Eastern Europe" as opposed to specific ethnic categorization. But it is a very different thing from either supremacism or phobia

24.85.236.12 (talk) 00:56, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Is your source correct?

Title "Longerich, Peter (2010). Holocaust: The Nazi Persecution and Murder of the Jews. Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press. p. 241. ISBN 978-0-19-280436-5." is used as a source of these claims:

Anti-Slavism reached its highest peak during World War II, when Nazi Germany declared Slavs, especially neighboring Poles to be subhuman and planned to exterminate the majority of Slavic people.

Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party regarded Slavic countries (especially Poland, Russia, and Serbia) and their peoples as non-Aryan Untermenschen (subhumans), they were deemed to be foreign nations that could not be considered part of the Aryan master race.[1]

It is incorrect that Yugoslavs were initially included in the anti-Slavism of Adolf Hitler. They were targeted by the Italian fascists. Hitler only disliked the Serbs. He liked the Croats. "Hitler's Table Talk" reports him saying "When I see Kvaternik standing before me, I see the kind of Croat I remember: totally loyal and committed, someone who we can completely rely upon. Whatever we do with the Croats, we must not treat them the way the Italians are presently doing. Croats are a proud people. We will depend on them to guard our marshes, and they will come through. They deny they are Slavs. They say they are descended from Goths. The fact they speak a Slav tongue is only a coincidence, they say." Historiaantiqua (talk) 19:55, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

But when you list page 241, there is no mention about Slavs in connection to their Slavicity. Author mentions murdering mentaly-ill Jews and later states:

Prisoners of war and civilians who in the eyes of the Einsatzgruppe troops had an ‘Asiatic’ appearance also fell victim to the policies of annihilation.164 The Soviet Commissars had already been described in the ‘Guidelines for the Treatment of Political Commissars’ as ‘the originators of barbarian Asiatic methods of combat’, 165 and the ‘Guidelines for the Conduct of troops in Russia’ had read, ‘the Asiatic soldiers of the Red Army in particular are inscrutable, incalculable, guileful, and unfeeling’. Behind the National Socialist stereotype of the ‘Asiatic’ enemy was the image that large sections of the originally Slavic peasant population had been extirpated by the Soviet regime whilst, as a result of ‘intermingling’ with Asiatic or Mongolian races, the remainder of the population represented a worthless but latently dangerous ‘sub-humanity’ that ‘the Jews’ dominated with the help of Bolshevist ideology. The danger supposedly emanating from this conglomerate was elucidated by Himmler speaking in July 1941 to soldiers from the Waffen-SS. According to Himmler, in the East ‘the same struggle against the same sub-human peoples, the same inferior races’ that have sometimes gone ‘under the name of the Huns, at others . . . under the name of Magyars, or under the name of Tartars, or under the names of Ghenghis Khan and the Mongols’. The murder of ‘Asiatic’ people in the Soviet Union is one of the chapters in the history of the Nazi regime’s policies of racial annihilation that have yet to be written. Only a few isolated examples are currently available. The systematic murder of ‘Asiatic’-looking people by the Einsatzkommandos can be documented from the civilian prisoner camp in Minsk that had been set up by the Wehrmacht in 1941, in which almost the entire non-Jewish male population of military age had been imprisoned.168 The ‘Asiatics’ were viewed there with the same suspicion and treated in the same undiscriminating manner as ‘Bolshevist functionaries, agents, criminals’.

How this page proves anti-slavism mentioned above? It is about asiatic feature, that was regarded by nazis as inferior (and was present among Slavic nations). There is no mention about any murdering plan either. Himller’s thoughts are stated on p. 253, but I did not read whole book yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.91.30.69 (talk) 21:41, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

This is entirely incorrect. Ideological Nazi anti-slavism has zero to do with the conceptions of modern racism with respect to the phenotypic expressions of the outward appearance of particular racial groups. The claim that "It is about asiatic feature, that was regarded by nazis as inferior (and was present among Slavic nations)" is totally and wholly incorrect and is importing present-day intersectional conceptions about racism which stresses such categories as "white," "asian," "black", into the historical narrative where they do not belong - in order to propagate the existing zeitgeist that "white people" cannot be victims of racism. Germany was in axis alliance with Japan, racially an East Asian people, and had several SS detachments of Turkmenic people, who appear entirely "Asian." The dialectic of "white superiority" cannot be applied to Nazism. It is also entirely untrue that "asiatic feature... present among Slavic nations," because this imagines a pure delineation along white supremacist lines and is in fact a racist argument entirely unaware that the modern day Caucasian people ARE ALL descended from East Asian subclade, which split off from the main clade some 54,000 years ago. The false Nazi claim that "Slavs are Asiatic invaders," is not only false, but the most common R-haplo DNA marker for Slavonic people is R1a and I2, and for the Germanic people it is R1b and I1, showing that the Germanic people originated FROM the Slavic people, not the other way around.

From "Hitler's Table Talk," a useful summary of his own views about the Slavic people. Nothing to do with "race" or "Asiatic features." Hitler's hate was a consequence of a low tolerance to disgust. He would physically become sick at the sight of blood and was a vegeterian. But because human desire is dialectical, there is evidence that sexually he was a coprophiliac, which also psychologically fits the bill:

"When one contemplates this primitive world, one is convinced that nothing will drag it out of its indolence unless one compels the people to work. The Slavs are a mass of born slaves, who feel the need of a master. As far as we are concerned, we may think that the Bolsheviks did us a great service. They began by distributing the land to the peasants, and we know what a frightful famine resulted. So they were obliged, of course, to re-establish a sort of feudal régime, to the benefit of the State. But there was this difference, that, whereas the old-style landlord knew something about farming, the political commissar, on the other hand, was entirely ignorant of such matters. So the Russians were just beginning to give their commissars appropriate instruction. If the English were to be driven out of India, India would perish. Our role in Russia will be analogous to that of England in India.

Even in Hungary, National Socialism could not be exported. In the mass, the Hungarian is as lazy as the Russian. He's by nature a man of the steppe. From this point of view, Horthy is right in thinking that if he abandoned the system of great estates, production would rapidly decline. It's the same in Spain. If the great domains disappeared there, famine would prevail. The German peasant is moved by a liking for progress. He thinks of his children. The Ukrainian peasant has no notion of duty. There is a peasantry comparable to ours in Holland, and also in Italy, where every inch of ground is zealously exploited—also, to a certain extent, in France. The Russian space is our India. Like the English, we shall rule this empire with a handful of men. It would be a mistake to claim to educate the native. All that we could give him would be a half-knowledge—just what's needed to conduct a revolution!

34 THE SLAV NATIONS

It's not a mere chance that the inventor of anarchism was a Russian. Unless other peoples, beginning with the Vikings, had imported some rudiments of organisation into Russian humanity, the Russians would still be living like rabbits. One cannot change rabbits into bees or ants. These insects have the faculty of living in a state of society—but rabbits haven't. If left to himself, the Slav would never have emerged from the narrowest of family communities.

The Germanic race created the notion of the State. It incarnated this notion in reality, by compelling the individual to be a part of a whole. It's our duty continually to arouse the forces that slumber in our people's blood.

The Slav peoples are not destined to live a cleanly life. They know it, and we would be wrong to persuade them of the contrary. It was we who, in 1918, created the Baltic countries and the Ukraine. But nowadays we have no interest in maintaining Baltic States, any more than in creating an independent Ukraine. We must likewise prevent them from returning to Christianity. That would be a grave fault, for it would be giving them a form of organisation.

I am not a partisan, either, of a university at Kiev. It's better not to teach them to read. They won't love us for tormenting them with schools. Even to give them a loco- motive to drive would be a mistake. And what stupidity it would be on our part to proceed to a distribution of land ! In spite of that, we'll see to it that the natives live better than they've lived hitherto. We'll find amongst them the human material that's indispensable for tilling the soil. We'll supply grain to all in Europe who need it. The Crimea will give us its citrus fruits, cotton and rubber (100,000 acres of plantation would be enough to ensure our independence).

The Pripet marshes will keep us supplied with reeds. We'll supply the Ukranians with scarves, glass beads and everything that colonial peoples like. The Germans—this is essential—will have to constitute amongst themselves a closed society, like a fortress. The least of our stable-lads must be superior to any native. For German youth, this will be a magnificent field of experiment. We'll attract to the Ukraine Danes, Dutch, Norwegians, Swedes."

[...]

The Czechs are the people who will be most upset by the decline of Bolshevism, for it's they who have always looked with secret hope towards Mother Russia. When we learnt of the fall of Port Arthur, the little Czechs in my class at school wept—while the rest of us exulted ! It was then that my feeling for Japan was born.

In the East, on the railway, all Germans will have to travel first or second class, so as to distinguish themselves from the natives. The difference between first and second will be that one will have three places on each side, and the other four.

I think it's an excellent idea to have introduced a single style of messing throughout the army. Already during the first World War, the messing for the troops was much better when the officers used it too. I don't see the point of an uninterrupted succession of dishes, such as used to be the rule. One is afflicted the whole evening with the same female neighbour, when one would have pre- ferred to entertain oneself with other fellow-guests. It's im- possible to eat enough of what one likes ! And the other dishes are boring. [This is an insane man who flips from cold buffets to German superiority. Any attempt to find reasoned consistent ideology is lunacy].

If anyone asks us where we obtain the right to extend the Germanic space to the East, we reply that, for a nation, her awareness of what she represents carries this right with it. It's success that justifies everything. The reply to such a question can only be of an empirical nature. It's inconceivable that a higher people should painfully exist on a soil too narrow for it, whilst amorphous masses, which contribute nothing to civilisation, occupy infinite tracts of a soil that is one of the richest in the world. We painfully wrest a few metres from the sea, we torment ourselves cultivating marshes—and in the Ukraine an inexhaustibly fertile soil, with a thickness, in places, often metres of humus, lies waiting for us. We must create conditions for our people that favour its multiplication, and we must at the same time build a dike against the Russian flood. If this war had not taken place, the Reich would scarcely have increased its population during the next ten years, but the Russian population would have grown vigorously. The earth continues to go round, whether it's the man who kills the tiger or the tiger who eats the man. The stronger asserts his will, it's the law of nature. The world doesn't change; its laws are eternal.

Historiaantiqua (talk) 19:49, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

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Expansion

The article looks incomplete as it is now and needs an update. For example, the anti-Slavic sentiment was widespread in Germany in the second half of the XIX century and particularly prior to World War I so it would be a mistake to assume that the Nazis were the first to express anti-Slavic sentiment. Marks, Engels, as well as other prominent persons of the era also expressed anti-Slavic sentiment. In most recent times, the article should examine anti-Slavic sentiment in the form of anti-Russian sentiment in the US and Europe during and after the Cold War.

Reollun (talk) 17:56, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

This is correct. Trotsky expressed perhaps most virulent anti-slavism of any of the Communist leaders. Historiaantiqua (talk) 19:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

"peoples" or "people"

should the opening of the article say "towards slavic people", as in negative attitudes towards individuals who belong to a slavic ethno-linguistic group, or "towards slavic peoples" as in negative attitudes towards entire slavic groups, for example Poles.

DirkJandeGeer (щи) 10:54, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Anti-slavic sentiment in the USA as part of KKK targeting

The article mentions the anti-slavic sentiment in Canada - heavily influenced by second wave of KKK in USA - but doesn't mention anything beyond that, even though this implies that second wave of KKK (at least) was treating slavs as the "wrong type of white" as well. All search for this ended up fruitless as all I found were basically Quora articles, so yeah, not a source. But as far as I understand, Greek, Irish, Slav were seen as "inferior white"? Have anyone found more on this? KoZaK (talk) 17:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Mussolini quote

"When dealing with such a race as Slavic – inferior and barbarian – we must not pursue the carrot, but the stick policy. We should not be afraid of new victims. The Italian border should run across the Brenner Pass, Monte Nevoso and the Dinaric Alps. I would say we can easily sacrifice 500,000 barbaric Slavs for 50,000 Italians"

Do we have a source for this? Amcnehn (talk) 01:52, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

the link citation is unfortunately dead but i can guarantee you, that is a written quote by Mussolini himself in his own racist fascistic ambitions towards southern Slavs in general for his spazio vitale (Italian Lebensraum) Benfor445 (talk) 07:13, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I added a book reference. - Altenmann >talk 19:03, 7 July 2024 (UTC)