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Hayley Jensen was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS however more people said keep than anything else. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 02:12, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Non-notable. Lengthy article about game show loser, with no other case for notability; from author of Soul Eater. Niteowlneils 17:25, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

  • Keep. There are many articles for other losers you speak of, I have just edited it to move the Australian Idol judges comment to another article. Is this fine? Rushworld 17:31, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Continuing... Please acknowledge all the losers on American Idol, Australian Idol, Pop Idol, etc. This is not the only 'loser' page. Rushworld 17:33, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
You're quite right. They should mostly be deleted. At least the English original only has individual pages for those losers who actually did go on to have some measure of success after the show.Dr Zen 06:47, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Abstain for now. Kind of messy... I don't have problems with subject's notability, but see also Hayley Jensen Australian Idol by same author. One page needs to be merged into the other. Also, possible copyvio probs on the picures? Niceguyjoey 17:36, Nov 6, 2004
  • Delete. Geez! What a lousy article. Topic is not notable, Content is junk. --Improv 17:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Oops, this vote went to the wrong article. My bad. No opinion on this, for now.--Improv 17:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Niceguyjoey, I just created Hayley Jensen Australian Idol so the main Hayley Jensen page wouldn't be so messy. Rushworld 17:38, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Bad idea. If we should have this page it should just be one page. Jeltz 17:50, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • Okay, readded all the info from Hayley Jensen Australian Idol to Hayley Jensen. I'd like to hear the opinions on the images and whether they should stay or be removed. Rushworld 17:53, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • the quotes would probably be best moved to wikiquote La hapalo 17:56, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
        • Do I make a new page over there, or is there some nifty way to move them? Rushworld 18:01, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Judging by the success of previous 'losers', the subject of the article will likely be 'notable' within a year. La hapalo 17:54, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Save the text somewhere and, within a year, when she are notable re-submit the article. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 19:49, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • save it somewhere? Hmm, somewhere where it will be easily available and accessible.. like.. Wikipedia? -- Chuq 00:07, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, but clean it up. You don't need the individual commentary from every round. Ian Pugh 18:36, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Changing vote to delete. It's good that the commentary has been moved, and I won't doubt there's a tad of notability here, but even with more added to the article, if there's nothing you can really say about her other the results of the show and the silly fannish trivia, then there's no point. The speculative nature about the article pushed me on the other end of the debate; let's wait until she gets that contract. Ian Pugh 22:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, not notable. A summary of this information belongs in the article on Australian Idol if anywhere. Let the editors of Australian idol who are familiar with the show hash out whether she is worthy of mention and, if so, at what length. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 19:46, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete: An also-ran. Appearing as a contestant is not an achievement by itself. When she gets the modeling or singing contract and achieves something, we will need an article, but we cannot and should not be in the business of documenting every on-camera contestant in a puppy-mill talent show. There are far, far, far too many interchangeable parts. One singer, two singers, three singers, gone. Uh-huh. Geogre 20:55, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Seems notable, fourth place finalist in Australian Idol, and we have articles on people who didn't make it nearly that far in American Idol. Here in the U.S., I remember it was a big deal when the fourth place finalist LaToya London was voted off, everyone was talking about it. Certainly that's notable, so it's not a big leap of faith for me to guess Australian Idol is comparably important in Australia. Everyking 21:10, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Being on a TV show doesn't make a person notable. Wile E. Heresiarch 23:29, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Strong keep. We've already kept articles on people who were eliminated well before this point. Based on the results of the first series, she's very likely to continue to have notability after this point. I'm no fan of Australian Idol, but I for one find this articles interesting and useful. Ambi 23:47, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Double-plus keep. Australian Idol is a vile show trumpeting the crass commercialism of the record industry in our faces, and she can't sing for peanuts. Still, she is notable, as much as I wish she wasn't. I can't believe people can say she's not notable, certainly more people could name her than <insert random scientist or author> that we have articles on. Don't let your (justifiable) bias against these stupid shows sway your judgement! Shane King 02:26, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep Four members of Australian Idol last year have had #1 songs on the Australian charts and several more have had hit records. Australian Idol is one of the most popular shows on Australian television. In the past week, Hayley Jensen has been on Rove Live, one of the most popular shows on Australian television. I live in Canberra, the same city that she does and she has been all over local radio - in fact, there was a promo for her on when I was listening to the radio earlier this afternoon. Capitalistroadster 07:09, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Further a Google search on "Hayley Jensen" gets nearly 5,000 articles. 1 and Google News gets 55 news articles on her. [1] Like it or not shes notable. Capitalistroadster 07:21, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. All top ten (or twelve) contestants on any Pop Idol variant are inherently notable, due to the work they do and the media attention they get. I know about half of the top twelve in American Idol 2 got recording contracts, and released albums. Even goddamn Joshua Gracin, who, quite politely, was one of the worst singers IN THE WORLD. Even worse than Keith. Mike H 10:40, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)
  • keep, i don't see how this can be distinguished from any other Idol finalist —siroχo 15:36, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)
  • K Just as long as Rik Waller knows his place, it's fine by me ... Chris 18:40, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete in the strongest way. She isn't in the least bit notable. There was no furore over her. She wasn't particularly popular and she'll be totally forgotten in a month. Jeez, man, are we really saying that appearing on TV is all it takes?Dr Zen 00:23, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Appearing on one of the most highly rated shows in the country, three times a week for over six months, and then making it to the top four out of 50000 contestants - getting your face plastered all over her local newspapers, TV Guides and probably commercial radio as well - yeah, thats all it takes. -- Chuq 01:39, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • Okay, Chuq. Let's have her in now and whip her out in a year when she's totally forgotten. That sound fair?Dr Zen 03:30, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
        • Sure. You can do that, if you like. But I'm not going to prevent people from writing about these people now, when there is a plethora of source material available *now*. In ten years time, when someone looks back and thinks "Who was that girl from Canberra who had a couple of average quality, high selling albums in the mid 2000s?" it would be nice if they could find details of every stage of her career. It is a lot easier to follow a person or story for a year and update an article as things progress, than it is to go back and write the whole thing from scratch several years later. (compare our detail of September 11 attacks to Attack on Pearl Harbor, or Australian federal election, 2004 to Australian federal election, 1993.) -- Chuq 04:22, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
        • Dr Zen, do you know who Alexander Rozhenko or Miral Paris? What about Bill Viola? Let's see about Adolph von Knigge? The first two are star trek characters, the third an artist, the last a co-founder of the Illuminati. These 4 are just a small portion of people who aren't widely notable, yet all have their own pages on Wikipedia. Hayley Jensen is very notable due to her exposure as the 4th finalist on Australian Idol. Many of us Australians can still name some other Idols from last years show who didn't make it all the way - the same that Americans could name American Idols. She is notable, particularly around the Canberra region. Rushworld 06:06, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
          • "Notable" does not mean "I've heard of her". Since when was Bill Viola not notable anyway? He's a renowned artist. I live in Australia, dude. I'm perfectly well aware who Hayley is. A nobody. Who lost. All of her "exposure" follows entirely from her being on this one TV show. The entry about her consists of no actual information beyond that because there is nothing else to say about her. Yes, list her on the Aussie Idol page, but her own page, no way. As you note on your user page, you're an obsessed fan, not an objective commentator. I have nothing against obsessive fandom but it's not good reason for including an article in an encyclopaedia.
            • Since you're an expert on notability and whether 'stardom' allows one to be listed in an encyclopedia, then explain to me why most of American Idol "losers" all have their own pages, even those who haven't released any further albums? Why are there hundreds of pages dedicated to most Star Trek Characters, some of whom I would never remember and I'm an avid ST fan? Just because you may forget her in a years time doesn't mean a lot of her fans will as well, and there's plently of them. An encyclopedia is a reference of history - be them events, people, places, objects, whatever. She has played her part on one of the biggest shows to hit Australian television, and has begun her music career with the process. If Miral Paris is allowed this honour, then so should Hayley.
              • Clearly this is very important to you and as a consequence you have allowed yourself to become quite rude. We disagree, pure and simple. You are a fan and want the page. I am completely neutral and I think it should be gone. That's all it is. There's no need for the attitude. I've said that the American Idol losers should be deleted, or at most listed on the appropriate page. Their pages contribute nothing. As for Star Trek characters, I am firmly on the side of those who think that those pages have no place in this encyclopaedia, but given the nature of many contributors, there is little hope of their excision.Dr Zen 23:00, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
                • Judging by your user page, getting anything that doesn't fit your standard of an 'encyclopedia' (sorry, encyclopaedia) is a very important job for you. What is an encyclopedia? " A reference source containing information on a variety of terms, persons, and events. This information may be supplied in short paragraphs or in lengthy articles that include citations to other works on the same topic. Encyclopedias can be general, covering all topics, or specialized, focusing on a particular discipline such as art or philosophy." This article IS a reference, Hayley Jensen IS a person, Australian Idol IS an event. Her notability is there, she is a celebrity, every other celebrity has their own page on the site. Whether your personal judgement that just being on Australian Idol - a "tv" show - deems one to be a celebrity is the exact same as me being a fan. Don't start with the me being rude part, just read your original reasons for deletion and see who's being rude. Rushworld 02:30, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
          • And Chuq, yes, if she has a couple of albums, she'll become notable. But the information isn't lost. You can keep it safely on your HD and become her official biographer, when she merits it. As it is, without those albums, this article has absolutely no prospect of becoming encyclopaedic.Dr Zen 06:37, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
            • Partially replying to this and also your more recent comment above, but, this isn't important to me. Despite being a frequent editor of Australian Idol, I'm not really a fan, and certainly not a fan of Hayley. I don't see the benefit of writing up articles to keep on my HD (which may be lost at any time) instead of putting it on Wikipedia, just because someone on WP who would never read the article anyway doesn't want it to be there. -- Chuq 00:07, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Yes, I know it is sad, but people on these shows are notable. BTW that Rik Waller story thing is hilarious :) -- Chuq 01:39, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • If you delete this you should also delete Chanel Cole, Dan O'Connor and Amali Ward's pages. I'm ambivalent, slightly on the side of keep, she is famous, for a given value of fame (probably should declare my interest as an editor of her page, but mainly in an attempt to make it at least correct if it was going to stay). The image however, is an almost certain breach of copyright, probably safest to remove it. Dentarthurdent 08:19, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I don't like to say it, bu this is worthy of an article. •→Iñgólemo←• 00:57, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)
  • Delete. Television, despite its large audience, does not wield a +5 Notability Stamp of Great Justice. -- WOT 19:16, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • What does, then? Everyking 20:34, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Looks fine to me. --L33tminion | (talk) 19:48, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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