Talk:Humility

Can Humility be regarded as something that happens when the Parasympathetic Nervous System is Active?

I am wondering if Arrogance, Self Centeredness, Ego happen when the Sympathetic Nervous System is Active, and Humility (the antithesis of ego)happens when the Parasympathetic Nervous system (especially the Ventral Vagal Branch according to Polyvagal Theory of Porges) becomes active. John Mudie (talk) 08:58, 17 February 2022 (UTC) trying to offer this notion in a humble fashion

Anti Humility

I believe that there should be a section that critized the devaluation of the self. See only faults of one self, and seeing that you are with limits too much can fool you into thinking you cannot grow to be something greater than you are now. If they landed a man on the moon, all because of the effort that was required to do so in just a few years; it is evidence that we are capable of far more than we think we can ever do. That doesn't means stupidly trying to do something we would find is not likily; but learning how to do something that we think is too difficult to do (step by step of course). Humility is a killer of potensial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.137.210 (talk) 05:33, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Criticism is a valuable perspective to include here; there is a discussion of Nietzsche’s views, which are sharply critical of humility, which could be expanded, particularly if one could gather more opinions critical of humility (Nietzsche being rather heterodox in the Western tradition heretofore).

—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 00:42, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Removed Vandalism

I removed "Jesus Christ is Humility." from the top of the article. Just vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.151.183 (talk) 20:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Ghandi

Note that Ghandi was not a Christian in the orthodox sense, and that he was not speaking in the context of Christianity. I will try to pick this apart at a later date, as on the other hand some of his views do come from Christianity. Mr. Jones 10:29, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Gandhi was not a Christian in any sense. He explicitly rejected faith in Christ.--LCP 19:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Gandhi didn't eschew Christianity; he believed the teachings of Jesus to be wise and held them in high regard. He did however; have somewhat of a problem with Christians.

Good point. I revised my original statement (above).--LCP 15:42, 18 April 200l (UTC)

Humility as a Skill

I don't know that "skills" is exactly the right word for the list of the aspects of humility here. --Christofurio 16:13, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

"Skills" would fit nicely in a pop-psychology book on humility, not a scholarly article.--LCP 19:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's very scholarly for an article on humility (as a word or a concept) to be categorized only under Christian ethics. Christianity did not invent humility and it can exist independently of religion. Think about it this way - if you were a space alien and wanted to understand what humility means to humans, this article would give you the wrong idea. You would think that humility is mostly expressed in terms of religion... which is just not true at all. People are expected to have humility when dealing with authority figures, elderly people, teachers, professional superiors etc... There's no end to discussing the importance of humility in the secular world. Furthermore, it's obvious that the person who wrote the section on humility in Buddhism was just trying to be inclusive. That section doesn't really make sense. I know because I'm Buddhist and you can trust me that those references are obscure and misleading. 98.203.19.162 (talk) 07:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I added a category, but why don't you use WP:RS sources to improve that section. But please read WP:V and WP:RS first, thanks. History2007 (talk) 13:44, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Humility Toward Neighbor

The previous definition under Christianity completely failed to address humility toward neighbor, which is fundamental to the Christian understanding of humility. Furthermore, #3 was in no way part of the virtue of humility. Rather, it falls under the virtue of justice. Along these lines, made extensive edits and refinements. --LCP 19:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

"Be like water and flow downwards". (Lao Tzu).

Humility breaks bones of it allows for skills that are hidden. He who is low (close to the Humus www.etymonline.com, to the earth)perceives whats is wrong with the foundations and can rectify the building before it crumbles, there where rectification is required. Humility thus humiliates

Being low allows me to learn not only the problems of the low but also their skills, using such knowledge and skills to My/Their/Our benefit within the realm of Wisdom. That is the use of humility.

If you want to add this passage 8or derive further knowledge from it you must not edit the passage and necessarily quote my name: Lorenzo Andrea Capitani

Honestly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.175.24.193 (talk) 08:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Humility in Religion

Removed section, "Humility in religion, spirituality, and philosophy" as it was inaccurate and too general to be of use.--LCP 19:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Need for Revision

This topic requires extensive scholarly revision and input. Muslim, Confucian, Buddhist perspectives would also be most welcome.--LCP 19:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Necessary scholarly revision still has not occured, nor have other theological perspectives come to light.--December 12, 2006

Remove Joke

The extensive scripture quote and the “joke” should be abridged or completely removed. Neither have a legitimate place in an encyclopedia entry.--LCP 19:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Humble Pie

I cannot see the connection between the term 'Eating humble pie' (meaning being made to be embarrased by humiliation) and feeling of humility (meaning not thinking your of great worth).

Being embarresed does not to me indicate a sense of worthlessness, just feeling stupid.

Humilty has nothing to do with feeling worthless. That would be false humility. I think the phrase, "eating humble pie," indicates a willingness to admit fault and apologize. That requires true humilty.LCP 00:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Add direct link

Under Humnity in Christianity, on the second paragraph, please specify the St. Bernard that speaks of this quote and have that link direct it to his wiki page(if he has one). —Preceding unsigned comment added by PokemontrainerNelly (talk • contribs) 23:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments

This article has a great potential for improvement from future editors. I suggested the "Criticism" section a month foreseeing POV bias comments. I need some help to think about where to get sources for such a section. I imagine perhaps models from the business literature might be useful to add here. LaSaltarella 03:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe comparing and contrasting humility with shame and embarrassment would be helpful. Also, there is nothing in the article to back up the assertion that humility and humiliation are "completely different." Is that to say that one cannot achieve humility by being humiliated? The act of humiliating someone is a different thing altogether from the feeling of being humiliated, and there is no explanation or differentiation of these two things in the article.

Excellent point about the potential for humiliation to lead to humility.LCP 21:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

From the Catholic Encyclopedia entry: "As restricted to persons, humility is understood also in the sense of afflictions or miseries, which may be inflicted by external agents, as when a man humiliates another by causing him pain or suffering. It is in this sense that others may bring about humiliations and subject us to them."--Geremia (talk) 21:48, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

This emphasizes that this article is not from the point of view of a psychological state but rather about a religious state. —Mattisse (Talk) 21:53, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Suggested Improvements

The subsection "Catholicism" contains references to biblical figures (Moses, for example) and scripture on humility which are common to Christianity and Judaism. The section also reference new testament scriptures shared by Catholics and other Christians: Amish, for example, are also referenced. (Catholicism does not encompass the entirety of Christianity and the Amish, in particular, would be the first to tell you this...)

I suggest the following changes: move the subsection on Judaism to above the subsection on Catholicism and include those parts of the present Catholicism section that makes reference to Moses and other Old Testament examples of humility. (takiecare not to delete any of the present information in 'Judaism" ) Take the remainder of the "Catholicism" section and rename it to 'Christianity'. Break that into a sub-sub-section on Catholicism and other sub-sub-sections on other branches of Christianity, like the Amish for example. (Again, taking care not to delete the present information, but make certain to delineate what is strictly Catholicism for what is not and make note of the shared heritage, and therefore, the shared definitions and examples...) Take pains to also refer back to the subsection on 'Judaism' to clarify the shared parts.

Another suggested change: the 'Criticism' section ought to be made a subsection under 'philosophical views of humility'. To my knowledge there are no criticisms of humility made by anybody other than philosophers like Nietzche and Rand.

Also, if anyone is so inclined, there is an entirely different section to be written on social stratification and caste structures where humility is, or was once, imposed, either by economics, patriarchal (monarchy/oligarchy) or religious or political doctrine. Much of our present understanding of humility derives from social and economic factors as much as religious ones. Just some thoughts Petrsw (talk) 18:39, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

False humility/modesty?

I wonder if the kind humility that is expected in social situations is not necessarily deceptive even at face value if all parties understand the expected social decorum. It seems like if humility is displayed then it would be considered unethical by any philosophy that values forthrightness and or identifies manipulation for gain as an indecent or even harmful act. What's more is because a show of humility is "expected" then both parties are entering a pact that expects the other to behave indecently that could easily impose discomfort upon an individual's sense of rightness --172.243.161.115 (talk) 21:57, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Don't Forget Saint Benedict

Just a suggestion - Saint Benedict has had major impact on Western Christianity through The Rule of Saint Benedict. In The Rule, Benedict writes about humility in terms of climbing a ladder with twelve rungs. May I suggest that his contribution be acknowledged in your article on Humility. Thanks. Max3400 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Max3400 (talk • contribs) 12:28, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Humility/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

This article needs more structure and in depth information. All articles that are in need of a clean-up are at best "B" rated.

Last edited at 19:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 18:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Cults?

It's absurd that this page would include "Meher Baba" under world religions. Anything to do with a guru or cult shouldn't be part of this page. It's insulting that page authors would choose to include Meher Baba and not Scientology or Heaven's Gate or any other BS religion. Offensive. And misleading. Please take this down and stop using classic religious concepts to plug your personal guru. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:806C:670:98F5:52EF:C128:574A (talk) 05:35, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Intrinsic/extrinsic

Humility, in various interpretations, is widely seen as a virtue which centers on low self-preoccupation, or unwillingness to put oneself forward, so it is in many religious and philosophical traditions, it contrasts with narcissism, hubris and other forms of pride and is an idealistic and rare intrinsic construct that has an extrinsic side.

In many contexts, this would be a fairly clever summary/bridge sentence, except it wouldn't quite pass a sentencehood inquisition at the New Yorker.

Here's the same sentence with stylistic verb dislocation revised out:

Humility, in various interpretations, is widely seen as a virtue which centers on low self-preoccupation, or unwillingness to put oneself forward, and as such it is, in many religious and philosophical traditions, it contrasts with narcissism, hubris and other forms of pride and is displays itself as an idealistic and rare intrinsic construct that has with an extrinsic side.

The problem remains that while I'm way up to speed on intrinsic and extrinsic motivation (cognitive psychology), the phrase becomes ever more fuzzy in my understanding as the context skews into moral philosophy, sentiment, asceticism, deference, virtue signalling, and social hierarchy; this intrinsic semantic dislocation having much to do with why the original version reads so elegantly with its passive verbs, baby pronouns, and subtle verb dislocation—a perfect union of message and form.

The tonal nuance of this sentence is actually desired and hard to achieve in many writing venues (English is widely revered by poets and diplomats for its many overlapping registers of tonal evasion), but it's not really suitable for a hard boiled, street cop encyclopedia. — MaxEnt 16:58, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Etymology section

The article includes this line:

The word "humble" may be related to feudal England where the lowest cuts of meat, or 'umbles',' that is to say whatever was left over when the upper classes had taken their parts, were provided to the lowest class of citizen.

But this is a completely inaccurate paraphrase of the source, which describes the origin of the phrase "to eat humble pie" saying

Once the carcass had been redistributed, the consumption of the venison (a word which is derived from the Anglo-Norman venesoun, literally `the product of hunting') was also distributed on the basis of rank: while the lords consumed the prized portions, such as the liver and testicles, persons of lower standing were offered the remaining offal or umbles. Indeed, the saying 'to eat humble pie' is derived from the social humiliation association with the consumption of the poorer cuts.

The word 'humble' comes from 'humilis', much like 'humility', they are merely different levels of borrowing, 'humility' coming from (likely Ecclesiastical) Latin, and 'humble' from Old French, where it had the same meaning as it has today. To 'eat humble pie' was to eat the portions of meat meant for the poor and humble. I'm not sure how to reword the sentence so that it accurate captures the etymology, so help is sought. Qwed117 (talk) 23:43, 17 January 2023 (UTC)