Talk:Isinglass

Isinglass is also window material. In the musical 'Oklahoma', there is 'the surrey with the fringe on top' containing this line: 'With isinglass windows you can roll right down, in case there's a change in the weather'. Isinglass is heat resistant, and was once widely in use for the glass of hearths.

That seems to be eisenglass, not isinglass.

AKA mica. Eisenglass, btw, would mean something like 'iron glass' in German, but that could be faux etymology... Radioflux (talk) 20:02, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

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Would be good to know more about the chemistry of isinglass; what exactly is it, and how does it work?

This source says that it's collagen - explicitly not gelatin - and works because, in acidic conditions (as found in wine and, presumably, beer), it has a positive charge, which binds to yeast particles (which, i'm guessing, are negative because of acid sidechains on the cell wall) and causes them to aggregate, and so precipitate - or rather, flocculate. There's also something about binding polyphenols, but that's natural product chemistry, and therefore voodoo, on which i will not comment.

These guys go further and say tropocollagen. They say isinglass doesn't flocculate.

This is excellent science, marred only by an unsettling typeface.

-- Tom Anderson 2006-07-19

Etymology?

Is the word derived from "glass" in any way? 68.39.174.238 09:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Apparently it's in the category 'Dutch loan words', although the article makes no mention of it, alas. There is certainly no word like it in modern Dutch. My dictionary says it's an alteration (by association with glass) of a 16th-century Dutch word: huysenblas (sturgeon's bladder), from huysen (sturgeon) + blas (bladder). If anyone finds an online source, please add. Radioflux (talk) 19:57, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Kosher Wines

"Isinglass finings are also used in the production of kosher wines."

Isinglass is one of the ingredients that infamously renders wine not kosher. The issues of wine in halacha (Jewish law) are fairly complex, but isinglass from sturgeon would definitely render wine not kosher. For this reason I am puzzled by the above statement, when the fact is that many (non-kosher) wine producers use isinglass for the same purpose as brewers, and in both cases it renders the product non-kosher. Perhaps someone should research this and alter the final statement of the article. DBJC 23:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

See, for instance, the follwowing from the Kashrus Division of the London Beis Din[1] (Court of the Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth[2]):

"WINE

"Wine and Grape juice likewise must come only from a rabbinically approved source - but not for the same reason as cheese. The Sages put a ban on non-Jewish wine primarily as a safeguard against intermarriage, believing that by drinking-out one might end up dating-out. Hence products like brandy and wine vinegar must also carry a rabbinic seal.

"As it happens non-kosher ingredients occur in the manufacture of non-Jewish wines, such as bull's blood for colouring or more commonly, isinglass, a "fining" agent, which comes from a sturgeon - another reason for avoiding them.

"...To comply with kosher requirements, a fish must have fins and easily detached scales. The scales of a sturgeon are extremely hasrd to remove - hence it is non-kosher, as is it's precious roe, caviar." [3]

There are a few opinions (e.g. Noda BeYehuda Vol. Yoreh Deah No. 26) stating that, since the isinglass is removed, wine and beer prepared using it are permissible for Jewish people. However, as the article mentions, there is a remnant of isinglass, and so there remains a debate, but the ruling from London is clear.

DBJC 23:53, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Note also the following from the kashrus division of the OU[4] (Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America - Orthodox Union):

"Filtering – Most consumers would rather purchase apple and grape juice which has the naturally occurring haze or cloudiness removed. One common method of doing this is to pass the juice (while hot) through a gelatin filter, where the gelatin attracts the haze particles thereby facilitating their removal. A similar process was traditionally used for beer where small amounts of isinglass – a gelatin product made from the swim bladder of non-kosher sturgeon fish – were put into the beer to attract the haze and cause it to drop to the bottom where it can be filtered out. The use of isinglass is the subject of Nodah B’yehudah Y.D. I:26. The many angles of the question which he discusses are beyond the scope of this article, but it is worth mentioning one line of reasoning which many rely upon in practice. The amount of gelatin that is mixed into the beer is batel b’shishim [nullified when it constitutes less than one sixtieth of the total volume], and although it is generally forbidden to intentionally mix even the tiniest amount of non-kosher into a kosher product (i.e. ain mevatlin issur l’chatchilah), in this case one may do so because the person has no interest in having the non-kosher isinglass remain in the beer – and in fact the whole point is to have the isinglass and the haze fall out of the beer. Some rely on this principle, known as ain kavonoso livatel, while others insist that beer should only be consumed and/or certified if the haze is removed with commercial (kosher) enzymes." [5]

163.1.146.36 00:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, 212.188.138.98, for your addition. However, do we have a legitimate source for the use of any natural isinglass in kosher wines? As far as I am aware it is cheaper and easier to use synthetic alternatives... DBJC 19:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

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There should be a page on Irish Moss as well. This article has a little mis-information on Irish Moss. Irish Moss is primarially used to compact the protien at the bottom of the boil kettle (or whirlpool) at the end of boil and allow for a higher yield. I don't have a reference handy or I would edit the article but have used the product for years and hundreds of batches of ales.

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External links

I am removing all the current external links. One is a commercial site. All the other links are to sites about fermented beverages and if they are vegetarian/vegan or not. This article is about isinglass not vegetarianism. Isinglass is not the only ingredient that makes these beverages unsuitable for vegetarians/vegans. Milk, blood, egg whites, gelatin, and casein are all used as finings. These lists do not differentiate between what makes the beverages unsuitable. These sites may help illuminate another site but are inappropriate here. --Weetoddid (talk) 00:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

eisinglass

Clear vinyl material used for windows or portholes in pleasure boats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.87.173.103 (talk) 03:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

confusing, unhelpful image

Adding finings to a barrel of beer

I do not see any way in which this image of a smiling man standing in a filthy room with two metal kegs on the floor illustrates what isinglass is or even how it is used in beer-making. Nothing in this image - as far as I can tell - can be identified as isinglass, although I can assume that it is being introduced somehow through the grungy plastic tube that enters one of the kegs. I think this image is useless at best, and even confusing, and should be removed.

Having a useless or confusing image is worse than having no image at all, and to add sufficient text explaining how this image illustrates the use of isinglass would not be worth it in such a short article. The article already says how isinglass is used in beer-making. What does this image add? Nothing that I can see, except questions about why it is here.--Jim10701 (talk) 16:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)