Talk:Western Pomerania

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For older discussions, please check: Talk:Western Pomerania/Archive

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 (talk) 17:01, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

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Western Pomerania → ? – This article is about only one, arguably not the most important, meaning of the term. It may be better to change the title and place the disambig here, as Western Pomerania is not faithful translation of German Vorpommern. The WP:NC(GN) rules applies here, just as in Pomerelia (formerly Eastern Pomerania). Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 14:04, 25 August 2014 (UTC) --Relisted. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 08:43, 16 August 2014 (UTC) Propositum (talk) 12:19, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

And one more note: the other part of (narrow) Pomerania has the article entitled Farther Pomerania. Thus, the name of this page should be Hither Pomerania. Propositum (talk) 12:38, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

The difficulty is that it's not exactly clear what this article is supposed to be *about*, as compared to other articles on Pomerania (it's sort of a problem for the whole topic, given the preponderance of names and terms). It's hard to decide what the appropriate title of an article is if the scope is not clear.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:40, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

What scope ain't clear here? To me it's obvious that this article is the equivalent of the de:Vorpommern article, thus covering the historical Pommern-Wolgast region as well as the region in the context of modern Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 09:16, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Szczecin, Police, Wolin or Świnoujście are not part of modern Mecklenburg-Vorpommern or for that matter, historical Hither Pommerania.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:29, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Have to agree with Marek here, this is not about German term "Vorpommern".--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:31, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

It is. Do we have to worry about your reading comprehension? The historical Pommern-Wolgast duchy included the aforementioned places. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

• Interesting case. The choice to me is between the more common but less precise "Western Pomerania" and the more precise but less common "Hither Pomerania" (Vorpommern is hardly used except for the the current Land of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania). Sources I perused in Google Books favour "Western" but this usually refers to the current Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. Controlling for those and looking at the remaining sources, I get a lot of cases where "Western" refers to Pomorze Zachodnie or the whole of the former Province and Duchy of Pomerania, i.e. "narrow Pomerania" or Hither and Further together. After discounting those, there are still numerous sources using "Western" for only Hither or Swedish Pomerania. Sourcing using "Hither" seem fewer but it is a far more precise term. Based on the numerous meanings of "Western" vis-à-vis the clarity of "Hither" and that we have a corresponding article at Farther Pomerania, I support a move. —  AjaxSmack  21:23, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

We should use common names here. "Hither Pomerania" is so darned uncommon, it would be hilarious to make this move. We made this decision before btw and I don't see a problem with the current solution. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:22, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what "so darned uncommon" means exactly but it shows up in thousands of Google Books results (see some here). I'm not sure why a move would be "hilarious" either. I have already noted that the current title is more common in sources but that is because "Western Pomerania" is ambiguous and refers to three different places. "Hither Pomerania" does not suffer this problem and is used widely enough in sources. —  AjaxSmack  06:16, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Have you provided any evidence for this claim? "Hither Pomerania" is an old-fashioned expression that is barely used since 1990. It'd be wrong and OR to reinstate this on Wikipedia. Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 16:02, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

I just did if you note the link in my comment immediately above. I took the Google Books results and limited them to post-1950 sources. Around half of the hits are sources from the 2000s. There aren't going to be that many references under any name because the region is just not that commonly written about but use of the term is definitely not OR.

On the other hand, as I noted above, most of the search results for "Western Pomerania" are not about this region. For example, I Google Book searched the term post-1950 here. On the first page of 50 results I get 28 results referring to the current Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state or the Pomeranian areas within it. I get 12 results referring to the Polish notion of Western Pomerania (Pomorze Zachodnie) and only five results referring to the topic of this article. Five other results were questionable but some could have referred to this topic. With a ratio of 28:12:5 or as few as 10% of the hits referring to this topic, it is an understatement then to say that calling this article "Western Pomerania" is highly misleading. The dab page should be at that name and this page should be moved.

This, combined with the number of references that do use "Hither Pomerania" and that "Hither Pomerania" provides precise English term for the region, make it is a reasonable choice here. Please click the links and peruse for yourself. —  AjaxSmack  19:16, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

The thing is, the "Polish region" used to be German. We could just as well rename this article Pommern-Wolgast. It still doesn't make sense, since it's all there already. "Western Pomerania" is the established term, just as "West Pomerania" is used for the voivodeship, but usually in combination with the voivodeship denotion. There hasn't been a problem with this way to handle it and there isn't now. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:03, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Btw, you should check the terminology section in the Pomerania article. As you can see, "Hither Pomerania" isn't a tad more precise either, as it's also used for areas that are now Polish. So a move wouldn't decrease confusion or else. The only acceptable move imho would be moving this page to "Vorpommern", but I'm not too emotional about it. Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:06, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The solution is simple. Keep this article and create a new one on Hither Pomerania. If needed, split some content. In either case, reference the definitions of the regions. "John Smith defines Western Pomernaia as... while Hither Pomerania as...". --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:56, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

We already have that article. It is the DABCONCEPT article at Western Pomerania (disambiguation) which already covers the various iterations of "Western Pomerania". This article (the current Western Pomerania) is only about Hither Pomerania. —  AjaxSmack  00:22, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Which is the reason there isn't anything that needs to changed substantially. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 09:18, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Vor- / fore

Mention that Vor- must be cognate to English fore (toward the front). Jidanni (talk) 14:45, 16 September 2017 (UTC)