Talk:Seconds Out

Title

Does anybody know what the expression "seconds out" means, or if it is a pun on a phrase, what that all means? That should probably be explained in the article somewhere. Robotman1974 21:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

In Boxing, the corner men (who aid the boxers before the match and between rounds) are known as "seconds". The referee will yell, "Seconds Out!" to clear the corner men out of the ring so the fight may begin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.176.141 (talk) 01:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The above boxing reference is correct, but the title "Seconds Out" is also intended to show that this is the band's "second" album recorded "out" of the studio. The high quality both of the sound and the playing on this album have led to rumours that almost none of it is is actually live, and that most if not all of it was overdubbed later. This rumour was further propagated by Phil himself when presenting the radio show "My Top 12" on UK radio where he said "While we were in the studio recording, er, I mean mixing Seconds Out..." MarkRae (talk) 14:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Reading this section of the article again, the notion that Steve is the second [one] out of the band is plainly nonsense - Chris Stewart, John Silver, John Mayhew and Anthony Phillips all left before Steve did. So, if no-one has any objection, I'm going to remove that from the article in a week or so... MarkRae (talk) 02:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

The whole section is speculative - it's original research. If nobody finds a citable source explaining the title's meaning, the section should go. MFNickster (talk) 04:18, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

I think that the meaning of the expression is pretty clear: it is used in boxing. Now, any double meaning is, indeed, speculative. We might just leave a neutral wording, explaining what the expression means in boxing, and that other additional meanings have never been confirmed by the band. Though I don't really know how to express that correctly.--Gorpik (talk) 13:58, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Right, but the origin of the term is not really at issue. I'd love to find a source explaining why it was chosen (beyond the obvious "it's our second live album"). MFNickster (talk) 15:15, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. Nevertheless, this expression may not be so obvious to everybody, especially non-native English speakers. It might be left as a simple sentence in another section or, as you propose, removed altogether; it is not so important, after all, unless someone comes up with that source you mention.--Gorpik (talk) 16:20, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

I think that everyone is overthinking the Genesis title. It is a reference to show getting ready to begin and for seconds (referring to the boxing seconds) to get out of the ring, or in this case, get off the stage. Seconds Out referring to it being Genesis's second live album would be a poor play on words.2601:85:201:176A:E91D:7058:E4E3:50AD (talk) 00:03, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Which is the 'classic lineup'?

I'm leery of this sentence in the article:

As the band would slowly phase out this intricate quasi-orchestral piece, and lose Hackett while this album was being mixed, this album marks the end of the 'classic' Genesis lineup.

I've always understood the "classic" Genesis lineup to be Banks, Collins, Gabriel, Hackett, and Rutherford - but Peter Gabriel doesn't appear on this album, so what can this statement be referring to? MFNickster (talk) 20:19, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

That's certainly the way in which the phrase "classic lineup" is typically used within the online Genesis community. Therefore, I agree with you that the above statement is confusing. I believe what it is trying to convey is the opinion held by some fans that it was the departure of Hackett rather than of Gabriel which signalled the end of the classic / progressive period of Genesis. I've never particularly subscribed to this opinion, as songs like "Down and Out", "Duke's Travels", "Dodo / Lurker" etc can be considered as examples of progressive rock without too much of a leap of faith... Of course, this raises the ogre of whether a band's "classic" period also corresponds to its "successful" period. No doubt the band's accountants would argue that the "classic" period began with the release of "Follow You Follow Me". There's certainly no doubt that the band shifted many times more product without Gabriel and Hackett than it ever did with them... MarkRae (talk) 14:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

'Bookend Effect'

Where the hell is a Bookend Effect in 'Wind and Wuthering'? All the other - I agree, but W&W?? --80.139.220.138 (talk) 20:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

"In that Quiet Earth" repeats the intro to "Eleventh Earl of Mar" starting about 2:30 into it. MFNickster (talk) 02:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes it does but, since the album actually finishes with Afterglow, the "bookend effect" is not strictly accurate for this album... Perhaps it might be better to mention that the album includes several musical motifs which are found in more than one song (e.g. the main riff of Wot Gorilla appearing in the middle of One for the Vine), which is one of the generally accepted features of a "concept album"... MarkRae (talk) 14:38, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Bill or Chester?

Which songs feature Bruford and which feature Thompson? That definitely sounds like Bruford on "Cinema Show"...

Correct. Apart from Cinema Show, all other tracks are from the 1977 tour.MarkRae (talk) 20:52, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

A boxing title?

I have isolated that section since it is all pure guesswork.
Has the band never provided an explanation?
Isn't duelling a more likely sport here? If the seconds don't leave, they will be shot.
Varlaam (talk) 20:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Medley section of 'I Know What I Like'

This isn't a notable source, but for anybody who wants to check on these bits for verification, you can find the time indexes in this forum post. MFNickster (talk) 21:29, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Crawl? Really?

Should it indeed be Crawl, not Crawlers? I thought i just fixed an error, then saw the note about that it originally was Crawl. Forgive me if i was too hasty. Gattodacqua (talk) 22:02, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

The Cinema Show

On October 30 last year, some completely new user (to date he still has just half a dozen edits under his belt) changed the recording venue for "The Cinema Show" to the Glasgow Apollo, on July 9, 1976 (both in the main text and in the infobox). This looks very questionable. The article had been saying for years that the track was recorded at the Pavillon de Paris on June 23, 1976, and the liner notes for the original album (one of the inner sleeve bags) actually says that the entire album was "Recorded in Paris, 1976/77". Cinema Show is the only 1976 track, but I must say I feel more confident about those liner notes than abput somebody adding in a whole different show from the UK.188.150.68.13 (talk) 19:26, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Genesis played at Glasgow Apollo on 09/07/76, as shown in the concert film Genesis: In_Concert. I wonder if that's where the editor took it from. I also think that date is wrong but that's not based on anything. The album cover doesn't have to be definitive though, the text on albums had mistakes. Try to find another source for it.

As an aside, this site's not a meritocracy based on how many edits. Let's not be impressed by numbers of edits or give less credence to lesser frequent editors, that'd be crazy.

ToaneeM (talk) 01:09, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree that credibility should not be based on the number of edits, but the editor did not provide a source for their changes. If the only one we have is the album cover, we should use it until something better turns up. Gorpik (talk) 07:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)