User talk:Menchi/Stardate 0.0004

This is the fourth archive. For more or see the current version, see User talk:Menchi#Archives

wang zhaojun

Hi Menchi, take a look of the article and add anything relevant, would you mind? BTW some trimming in your talk page would be nice b/c it's getting long (and inconvenient) to scroll all the way down. All the best. ;) kt2 23:42, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Talk page trimmed. Thanks for noticing.
I've moved the biographic component of Zhaojun Tomb to Wang Zhaojun.

--Menchi 00:00, 13 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Robert Lee

Menchi, you mentioned on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(lists) that you were in favor of the more formal {surname}, {name} (without commas for CJKV of course) but didn't vote in the voting block. I am also a supporter of this syntax for names and I think the benifits can be seen on this list: http://quote.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_by_name I think you need to record your vote in the voting block in order to be counted. Thanks! Robert Lee

Voted. Although my formed opinion had already dissipated after 3 months, so I had to re-read my own comment to see the rationale. --Menchi 03:45, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Village Pump follow-up

(Note: I have edited this posting since originally submitting it)

Hi, Menchi:

This is just a follow-up to a Village Pump discussion we had from a week ago. I never mentioned it to you, but a day after I asked Nanshu what the connection is between him and the anti-Korean Web site I found, he replied on Talk:Names_of_Korea that it is "one of his" Web sites. This is good to know, since it is clear to me now where he stands on certain issues. After all, this is the person who once created a page entitled Korean anti-Japanism (since moved to Korean-Japanese disputes)!

Some of the his more notable edits have been of Taekwondo (since NPOV'd by another Wikpedian), Dangun (just NPOV'd by me), Hwarang (not really NPOV-able), Goguryeo (since NPOV'd by me), Samjeondo Monument (since NPOV'd by me), and Dispute over the name Sea of Japan (since NPOV'd by me) (and the accompanying Talk page). Basically, his agenda is to cast Korea in as bad a light as possible (it seems) without actually saying anything wrong. For example, there was a section in the Dangun article entitled "Religious and Political Exploitation" (note the loaded term) that detailed how these entities have been used by political and religious leaders in the 20th century. What he wrote is almost certainly factual but overall extremely one-sided, and I don't see any similarly negative comments about how Amaterasu or other mythical figures (for example) have been exploited by the ruling elite in Japan or other countries!

All I can do is watch his Contributions page and make sure I catch his edits as he makes them, I guess.

Yours, Sewing 02:21, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

That would be the best thing to do. But don't make it your sole purpose here. Wikipedia values not just the defenses against insidious (and obvious) trolling, but also knowledgeable contributions to non-controversial (aka "less-trolled") topics. --Menchi 05:05, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Yes, of course. One of my main projects has been maintaining and expanding the List of Korea-related topics, and it was largely through editing that page (checking links, fixing romanizations, etc.) that I discovered many of Nanshu's edits. But I won't let it consume me. I am editing what I hope to be constructive articles on Korean provinces, language, and transportation; and eventually, I even hope to move on to non-Korean topics!--Sewing 17:11, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Wikification

Thanks for the nice wikification job on Fibromyalgia while I was on the ad-removal track and not thinking so much about it. JamesDay 01:40, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for expanding that article! It's 'bout time! :o) --Menchi 01:59, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Family trees

Hello! I'm glad you like the design of the family trees. I'm now working on the english, but its a mess to organize so many marriages and branches in a practical width... Cheers, Muriel

Yeah, I can tell it'd take a lot organization skill and energy to place the lines where they are so the tree is readable. You inspired me to do a simpler and much easier-to-do Royal disease 'family tree'-list. :-) --Menchi 06:12, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Greeting

Menchi, 你好！

Thanks for your welcome message on my talk page. It appears we share some interests, like Chinese culture. Perhaps we will co-edit some articles in the future.

Regards,

Lawrence Lavigne 06:38, Nov 12, 2003 (UTC)

Well, that'll probably only happen if you edit enough of the pages. ;-p *开玩笑* I'm certain we'll both contribute to the same article in no time (even if it's just small proofreading/copyediting), and you'd have to correct my grammar! :-)

You'll have a great time here, I'm sure. --Menchi 06:44, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Greeting II

Thanks for your greeting and links, Menchi! Can't wait to be more a useful and effective Wikipedian. Bulatych Wed Nov 12 15:28:23 UTC 2003

I'm certain that you will one in no time! --Menchi 00:11, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Greeting III!

Thanks for the great greeting...I seem to already be a wikiholic after only 3 days...Not sure if that is good or bad. There just seems so much that can be added I don't know where to begin. Don't you get a little frustrated at the vast amount of information that has yet to be added. ;)

Anyway, I hope to add and learn from you others Wiki's, all I can. M1shawhan 02:11, Nov 13, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, let Wikihol seep into your body slowly and enjoy the sensation.... *Took a sip myself* --Menchi 02:21, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Anon edits

Yes, the vandalism definiton includes all the newly created nonsense articles that were deleted. --snoyes 02:12, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Alright. --Menchi 02:21, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Re: Butt rot

Hm. Why didn't I think of that? -Smack 18:29, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Great. No more confusion with human anatomy. --Menchi 00:52, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

External links stuffup

Source of stuffup - inconsistancy between Wikipedia:Guide_to_Layout and Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style. I'll leave this to you to investigate/fix up .. I'm in the middle of a massive edit (going through all Suburbs of Sydney and disambiguating / adding those with content to main Sydney page) ... and I'm on GPRS at the moment, so it's painful. --Pratyeka 09:04, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Ok, fixed. Contradictions...gone. --Menchi 09:16, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Re: Source advice

Thank you for your concern. I have now given the source for all the public domain images. Deerwindow.jpg was actually taken by me out of my window, and the rest were from public domain image repositories. Alexandros 14:00, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Great. The only thing is that we need a specific URL. A vague "this is Public Domain image" is insufficient. Keep up the good work. --Menchi 14:19, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Ok sorry about that. I probably thought I had the URL for nudibranche on english wikipedia because I have the URL for Nudibranche on the french wikipedia. In addition, thank you for your support! Alexandros 14:29, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

A-Ma

Could you add A-Ma, and the associated context, to the list of names of Matsu? In fact, I have read some stories about the life of A-Ma which seem different from the one of Matsu (more related to Macau). Could you clarify that? Thanks! olivier 08:43, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The websites I found just say A-Ma is a nickname of Matsu. Maybe Macau has a regional variation on her story. In Goddess Matsu, there are two versions of her death, for example. --Menchi 08:47, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hyphenated American

Thanks for catching the Hyphenated typo. I must have been asleep. Fuzheado

I actually didn't see it at all until I wanted to go to Hyphen by cut-and-pasting the URL and shortened it to [Hypen~~ated American~~]. And only when the link is void did it catch my attention. --Menchi 04:37, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Royal trees

Dear Menchi, thanks for the family trees pointer. I was planning to organize a page like that. I liked your Heading Europe: i forgot that in other places there were also dinasties, perhaps even more ancient! Do you know anyone in particular? Cheers, Muriel 08:46, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:Muriel Gottrop#Suggested trees. --Menchi 08:34, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

the pharaohs is a wonderful idea, especially with the confusion and mess surronding the Ptolomies and Cleopatras in the wiki. I'll work on that and keep you posted. Muriel Victoria

Roman "middle name"

Me again, about the middle name. You are right, Julius is not a middle name, actually it was Caesar's surname. I removed the sentence and left a small explanation in the talk page. Cheers, Muriel Victoria

Thanks! Interesting name change, btw! --Menchi 08:34, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Berkeley photo

glad you liked it - do you know that path up Claremont? fabulous views! seglea 09:38, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I certainly hope I'll one day! --Menchi 09:39, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Re: Thanks

[1]

Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate it. Angela

Question

Sorry to bother you, but i am too curious to control myself. do you know the original text (in Chinese) of the following text, which is from wikiquote (it says it's from an ancient Chinese male-male wedding ceremony??):

For death, or life, or toil,
To thee myself I join;
I take thy hand in mine,
With thee I would grow old.
--From an ancient Chinese male-male wedding ceremony Thanks! --Yacht 13:18, Nov 25, 2003 (UTC)

Never heard of it, Googles shows basically not hits too. I don't think it is authentic Chinese. Some Westerners like to credit fake exotic/philosophical quotes to "the Chinese" (because they're "the wise and ancient people"). Confucius get tons of false quotations in English. Sorry to disappoint you, but I guess you probably suspected that already. --Menchi 01:53, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Moving & merging

sorry about lopping off your middle school content. i made sure to restore it. --The Cunctator 02:22, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

All is well! --Menchi 02:23, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Image attribution

Menchi, re your comments at Talk:History of Greek and Roman Egypt. You're going to have to explain to me what you mean by "photo attribution." When I tried to put photo credits at my own photos (eg, "Photo by Adam Carr"), I was told this wasn't allowed. I have never seen a photo credit on a Wikipedia page. What are you suggesting I should do? Adam 00:18, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Replied at [User_talk:Adam_Carr#Image attribution & comments]. --Menchi 00:43, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Moved by Adam to User:Adam Carr/Talk Archive2 (no reply). --Menchi 04:09, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I scanned all photos from Book: Eesti riiklikud teenetemärgid . - Tallinn : SE & JS, 1998 . - 116 lk. : ill.ISBN 9985-854-11-X User:Egon

Replied at User talk:Egon#Image attribution. --Menchi 04:09, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

River in China

Hey Menchi, I just deleted the article Xi Jiang which was redirecting to the non-existing article Xijiang River. In the history of deletions of the first article, I saw that there was a redirect to Pearl River (China)) which does exist. I have no idea if it's the same river we're talking about. Can you take a look (I'll also ask Jiang)? Dori 05:58, Nov 28, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, Xi Jiang = Xijiang (River). Does that answer the question? --Menchi 06:00, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

But Xi Jiang, Dong Jiang, and Bei Jiang aren't Zhu Jiang? Why do they redirect there? --Jiang

A temporary solution, since we have no articles on them. But apparently they've become self-links. Which is bad. I'll write stubs or delete them. --Menchi 07:55, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Why are you redirecting to Beijiang River, Xijiang River, etc as opposed to having the articles at Bei River or Bei Jiang (and so forth)? Jiang=River? Beijiang River is just bad form, like "Rio Grande River" in Spanish. --Jiang

"Beijiang River" will invariably refers to this river [2]. "Bei Jiang" refers to some other things like some people's names. "Bei Jiang" seems fine, but it gets mostly German hits (because "bei" is a German word) [3]. --Menchi 08:16, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

You can say Bohai Sea is my motivation. :-) --Menchi 08:17, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

And Chang Jiang is mine. :D (Actually, if the kingdom did not exist, I would be asking the article be moved.)

We'll disambigate as necessary when someone with that particular name gets famous enough. (Maybe by adding "river" in parenthesis?) It's just bad to be redundant in the title, and leads people unfamiliar with chinese to use this wrong form. People who go around calling Chang Jiang River will get laughed at. --Jiang

LOL! It does sound funny to my Chinese ear, but there are apparently about 600 web pages saying that. I took another look at "Bei Jiang" [4], and it seems there are only about half a dozen pages saying that to mean the river. There is even a "...bei Jiang Zemin." But "Beijiang River" has about 80 authentic hits. The current usage seems to favour the crosslinguistic redundancy. --Menchi 08:41, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Just because others are wrong doesn't mean we should follow them... The other usages redirect anyways. --Jiang

And I thought it was something simple. Well, at least I learned something. Dori 14:19, Nov 28, 2003 (UTC)

Wikisource Babel intro

Help, See ur talk page at Wikisource. --Samuel 02:26, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Replied there. --Menchi 03:37, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Amy Tan

You are correct Menchi, someone accidentally deleted the Chinese name of Amy Tan -- namely me. I am suitably chastened. Apologies to all concerned. Moriori 07:06, Dec 2, 2003 (UTC)

All's well. :-) --Menchi 07:10, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Head of state/government (Nation-box)

Hello Menchi, thank for your compliments, I have appreciated very much. But someone disagree with us and want to maintain the old version. If you want to join in the debate go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries.

--Karukera

Threw my two cents at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries#AT A GLANCE. --Menchi 09:13, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Stalker?

[5]

I guess he discovered that there was no page to delete! An IP trace came up with nothing, so I don't know where this anon came from. Oh well.... --Jiang|(Talk)

You probably used a North American or European database. Try Asia Pacific Network Information Centre. Note the snail address, then read the biography of the two guys at your Watch (not that there's much to read at all).

What exactly is the point of his scribble? This psychology is perplexing. --Menchi 08:08, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Chinese interlanguage links

Thank you for the info. I will get Rob to fix this. Alexandros

Rob Hooft the author of Robbot -- Alexandros 03:39, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I did read the information on zh-cn and zh-tw and found it very clarifying. The robot code is now able to deal with this by ignoring zh: links if there are zh-cn: or zh-tw:. Furthermore it can find the mutual links between zh-cn: and zh-tw: pages. The description was very clear; thank you. Rob Hooft 08:42, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Terrific! --Menchi (Talk) [[]] 09:14, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Re: Samcheok-shi

I have not yet figure it out how it is correct. They use term shi in city names, but the territory around the city is like a county and is also shi (i.e: if one county is ending then the next sign (at the road) says: Welcome Chuncheon-si, although the city is after 40 km) It seems taht they call both of them shi, and to make differences here, I made different lists in each Do, where is listed only counties, although there are shis also. Egon 14:40, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Maybe the territory around the city is still city technically, but not downtown (city centre)? --Menchi (Talk)â 14:51, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Thank You! No. Like I understand the city is the centre of all. Then it make one lower rural division, usually Eup, and then it is the centre of Shi, what is like county in US. --Egon 13:02, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Re: Talk:Gemstone#Number of stones

Hi. I've posted my thoughts, as wayward as they are. If there's anything else you think I could add to, I'd be happy to oblige. A pleasure to make your acquaintance. Hadal 16:11, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Pleasure is mine. Never met a gemmologist, always assumed they wear black Froddo-cloak and monocles. :-D --Menchi (Talk)â 16:40, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Hao Lulu

Hey Menchi, thanks for your improvements to Hao Lulu. I figured you might have something to add to it. Wish we could include the photos in the article, but that would probably be impossible to arrange... -- Viajero 17:23, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Welcome. I actually never heard of her until I read your article.

Re: Photos. I suppose they'd be glad for publicity. But I don't know if that'll be complient with GFDL. Under their webpages, it says "© 2003 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED". Here's the clinic's "Contact us" page: [6] There's an e-mail addy for the webmaster. Don't know if he can speak for the clinic (or the clinic's lawyers).

--Menchi (Talk)â 17:44, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Skipping redirects

To be honest, I don't usually bother. But on the Main Page, I think there's a higher chance that more people who aren't strictly "Wikipedians" per se might be reading, and clicking on the link and then reading "redirected from" can be jarring to a newcomer I think - Hephaestos 08:30, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, that logic makes sense. The tagline does seem a bit of a Wikipedianese. --Menchi (Talk)â 08:32, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Re: Xmas logo

Thanks. I will tell the author. I just advertised the fact :-)

However, the logo was removed. Tarquin thought it non acceptable, and threatened to stop participating while it was there. So, it will only be put for 3 days around Christmas. I am glad I had the time to see it, for I won't be there then. We are planning a Hannuka one, and one with pumpkin for next fall :-) ant

That means I will get to see the logo twice! Now, and again in Xmas! Wee! And if it becomes a Hannuka logo, the better! --Menchi (Talk)â 18:26, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Thanks

Hello Menchi -- Thank you for the nomination -- I very much appreciate it! -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:16, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I believe that you'll make an excellent sysop. --Menchi (Talk)â 02:27, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

'Meta'

Hi Menchi. I was just clearing up the village pump and found this. I didn't know if you wanted it, so here it is. Just delete it if you no longer need it. Angela . 04:37, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

We are translating stuff at Chinese WP, and couldn't tell what "Meta" means in "Meta-Wikipedia". The dictionary's definitions all seem weird [7]. --Menchi 08:41, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

From Meta: In epistemology the prefix meta- is used to mean about. Thus, any subject can be said to have a meta-theory, which is the theoretical consideration of its foundations and methods. So, Meta-Wikimedia is about Wikimedia. Angela . 08:51, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Great! Thanks. --Menchi 08:54, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

When I see "meta" I think of self-reference. Bevo 05:36, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Finished move

The Washington Post (Weird pipe link)

If I did, it was unintentional. I was reverting the listing of a killer whale in current events, which belongs in recent deaths instead. --Jiang | Talk 04:53, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I see. --Menchi (Talk)â 04:54, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Re: Zoisite

Thanks! I've still got a long way to go before my work can compare to your many excellent articles. Pesky meatspace, always getting in the way. ;) Hadal 15:04, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Zoisite is very excellent, our dear gemmologist! --Menchi (Talk)â 00:43, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Taiwan Russian link

Dear Menchi, this link is not dead anymore :-). Drbug 15:53, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)

That link Тайвань is not suitable for Republic of China. It is for Taiwan. The Republic is a political entity, Taiwan is a place, an island. --Menchi (Talk)â 15:58, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Republic of China is not known under this name among Russians, but rather under name of Taiwan. It was decided not to store articles under long non-natural unclear names, like "Republic of China" or "Federal Republic of Germany", but "Taiwan" and "Germany" insted. The island is ofter referred to as "Formoza" or "island of Taiwan", but single "Taiwan" always implies the country, not island. There are always slight difference in terms in different languages and cultures. Drbug 12:57, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I'm guessing you don't know any Taiwanese-Russian who came from ROC. The political situation of ROC is nothing like "Germany" for "Federal Republic of Germany". --Menchi (Talk)â 20:36, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Chinese astrology

Does Chinese astrology mean shengxiao? I made some edits there, correct it if wrong, thanks! --yacht (Talk) 05:20, Dec 19, 2003 (UTC)

No, shengxiao is Chinese zoodiac. I've fixed. --Menchi (Talk)â 05:49, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Taiwan region

I remember reading about the "Taiwan region" as being "Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen, and Matsu" on the government website, http://www.gio.gov.tw. However, I don't know if that website can be trusted, given how much the current administration has altered it. Hmm...a lot of the links on google have to do with earthquakes. --Jia ng 13:29, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Matsu

I made the change to Makung. Thanks for pointing out my slip. --Lowellian 04:19, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)

Welcome. --Menchi (Talk)â 04:25, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I just noticed your question about the Matsu legend on Talk:Matsu (goddess), and it recalled to me that I'm actually familiar with that legend, which I've added, with a bit more detail, to the main article. --Lowellian 05:19, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)

That makes sense. There must be several accepted versions of this popular legends. I heard about the mouth one when in elementary school. Never heard of her climbing the mountain. Great addition! --Menchi (Talk)â 05:28, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Deletion proposals

Hello. I noticed that a few days ago you proposed deleting the articles on three terrorist attack victims. These were Daniel M. Lewin, Donald A. Peterson, and John J. Wenckus. (You wrote, "Move stuff to Wiki911: 3 guys here: Talk:Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology#MIT alumni who died in September 11, 2001 terrorist attack. --Menchi (Talk)â 11:56, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)".)

Unfortunately, you didn't list the articles individually on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion, provide any reasons for their deletion, or add the deletion warning text to the tops of the pages concerned. All three of these things should be done when nominating pages for deletion. On 20th December, I noticed your entry on Vfd, and added the warning notice to each of the three pages. Imran saw me doing this to one of them, and queried it, saying, "I see you've put a VfD notice on Daniel M. Lewin but not listed it on the votes for deletion page, was this an accident, as I can't see any reason for the page to be deleted." (I was going to relist the three pages on Vfd properly, but didn't get round to it.) After attention had been drawn to this article, it was undeleted and relisted on Vfd. There was a lot of support on Vfd for keeping it, and it is now being kept. So it would seem that the article was only deleted originally because many people didn't realise it had been nominated for deletion.

The same is quite likely true of the other two articles, so I have now undeleted them as well, and relisted them on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion. When nominating pages in future, please bear in mind the three things I mention above that should be done. Thanks. -- Oliver P. 06:03, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

So, 1) list items, 2) explain reasons, 3) note VfD note on deletee candidates? Ok.. so much to do, and so little memory I have. I'll just avoid VfD unless I'm desperate.

I used to care about WP in a way that I cannot stand unencyclopedic stuff here and watchlisted VfD and checked it and commented on it daily; now I'm just laid back and mainly just sit back and let people work on personal biographies or vanity pages or album discography in a WP corner. Meanwhile, I work on what I think is encyclopedic (mostly Chinese geography and history) in my corner. Basically, it is like building a webpage on Internet, you cannot expect to control even 1% of the "inappropriate" activities in the other websites. That is just impossible! -- That is my philosophy. (This is not a dissatisfied rant, just a personal comment on a shifting view on WP encyclopedicity.) --Menchi (Talk)â 07:49, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Cantonese Romanization

The Mandarintools Character Dictionary [8] lets you search by Yale Romanization, and provides it for every entry (you can also search by character, English, pinyin or radical. Very useful!) --Xiaopo's Talk 08:03, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)

Danke! --Menchi (Talk)â 08:04, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Political Cartoon

I really have no idea myself. I would also think it's the US, especially since she's not holding a knife like the rest of them. I got the image from [9] and the description has long vanished. Maybe this should be brought to the reference desk... --Jia ng 08:21, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I asked on WP IRC and got some insights after people discussed about it. I have added a caption at Imperialism in Asia#Imperialism in China. --Menchi (Talk)â 01:13, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)