Talk:Juan Bautista de Anza

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 28, 2004.

Basque origin

The Basque origin of Anza is widely documented, even to the origins of his family inside the Pyrenee mountains. But about his father, also Juan Bautista, it is documented that he was from a farmacist family in Hernani, having there his bautism card. The Spanish empire then was formed by different nations, as in example had been Flanders or the Navarre kingdom. The fact that today the Basque region is divided among Spain and France didn't meant in any way that the Basques weren't Basques, as it seems our Galician wiki-friend thinks.Idiazabal 12:51, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

He was a Spaniard, serving the Spanish crown with pride and devotion. Maybe you could learn from him.

500 or 800-man army?

"In 1779 the new governor of New Mexico, Juan Bautista de Anza, organized a 500-man army with 200 Ute and Apache auxiliaries." Comanche history

"With his Ute and Apache allies and about 800 soldiers he went north through the San Luis Valley, entering the plains at what is now Manitou Springs, Colorado." Juan Bautista de Anza

How many Spanish soldiers really, then? It may be a minor point, but consistency is always good.... TheMadBaron 21:05, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Descendants

It is said that Juan Bautista de Anza had a wife but they had no children. Later on it is stated that his descendants Live in Mexico city. I believe this could be due to the fact he had "other women" in his Life, but then it is not of consequence to state the fact that "they did not have any children" or just rephrase it to:"he had X number of children".

Another fact

Another fact: he originally started out from Álamos, Sonora, moved to Imuris (to stock up with cattle) and then made his way to Tubac. I am not a historian but this is our History and I am certain this information can be improved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.171.105.15 (talk) 16:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statues

Two statues. First one at Lake Merced statue and another from the wikipedia libary.^[1] ^[2] BeckenhamBear (talk) 09:22, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

De Anza statue located in Riverside, California

^ http://www.nps.gov/juba/planyourvisit/californiatrailheads.htm%7C Statue in Lake Merced
^ http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Juan+Bautista+de+Anza&FORM=BIFD#focal=a5207a3754bed0a2351bf21ddb940e69&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.sfgate.com%2Fc%2Fpictures%2F2006%2F07%2F03%2Fba_bautista_statu.jpg%7C Another view and history of statue in Lake Merced

Name usage in article

Spanish_names#The_particle_.E2.80.9Cde.E2.80.9D_.28of.29 gives info on the usage of "de" particle. I raise this because we have "Anza", "de Anza", surname + given name, and the full name used throughout the article. In this edit [1] (now reverted) added unsourced info the non-usage of "de" in Basque naming. (But was Anza/de Anza Basque?) While I wish I could WP:DIY, the proper usage & naming needs an editor with more knowledge than I. – S. Rich (talk) 18:59, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Srich32977, the usage in force is the one prevailing in the United States, with "de". Basque was a non-status language, for prestige Spanish was used at that time by Basques from Gipuzkoa on writing most of the times, with "de" pointing to a lineage, meaning 'of', i.e. belonging to that lineage or estate (house, baserri, tower house, etc.). Basques, like nowadays (even in Spanish), would just say Juan Bautista (well, a reduced version of that) Anza. Check out Basque surnames.

De Anza father hailed from Hernani, learnt some Spanish, and set off to America. The son was born in America, but community ties of originary places remained still for some time in America, incl. language. The information is in the refereces. Iñaki LL (talk) 15:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've given up on arguing these "regional pride" disputes but, in fact, de Anza was not Basque - his father was Basque. The subject of this article may have been of Basque heritage, but he was born in Sonora, New Spain, and was a Spanish subject. Juan Bautista de Anza is a Spanish name. Saying de Anza was Basque is like saying Obama is Kenyan ;-) WCCasey (talk) 22:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, sorry, you may have given up on what you call "regional pride" (at that time, it would be said, he was a Basque (or "Biscayne") national), but you are accepting other big national present-day prides. In fact, his father was a clear-cut Basque (subject of the king of Castile, or the Spains), and that is how everyone would see him. It is a matter of historic accuracy. However, I am not dwelling on this, I made my point above, which is clear (the communities in the New World), but whatever the source says will be fine. Iñaki LL (talk) 08:17, 5 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] ttp://www.nps.gov/juba/planyourvisit/californiatrailheads.htm%7C Statue in Lake Merced

[2] ttp://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Juan+Bautista+de+Anza&FORM=BIFD#focal=a5207a3754bed0a2351bf21ddb940e69&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.sfgate.com%2Fc%2Fpictures%2F2006%2F07%2F03%2Fba_bautista_statu.jpg%7C Another view and history of statue in Lake Merced

[1]

[2]