Talk:Freon

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2019 and 9 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Eggball2333.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:52, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Freon costs

I'm dubious about the freon costs, or at least about how much is due to treaties. http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_25914.html says freon (r134) was $10/lb in 2002 - not $85. Ditto http://66.102.11.104/search?q=cache:gd4olrVxvHIJ:www.3di.com/gbof/downloads/success_stories/mat_res_waste20.pdf+freon+cost&hl=en

Is Freon really destroying the ozone layer?

After reading http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1994/vo10no23.htm , I'm not sure what to believe. - Mpnolan 18:40, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

(William M. Connolley 19:17, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)) Believe the wiki ozone depletion page and the scientific references listed therein. The newamerican piece is utter tosh. If you want a sample, try Dr. Ray also pointed out that "CFC molecules are four to eight times heavier than air.". If you can't work out why thats utterly irrelevant, I can enlighten you, but its better if you can work it out for yourself. Then try to work out why the newamerican can't.

well of course it can not do damage to the ozone if it cant get there?????????????????????????

signed,Interested learner, wanganui new zealand —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.78.81 (talk) 05:41, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I remember working around a refrigeration shop, a guy would throw a burning cigarette across the room, then open the bottle of R12 a few seconds. In one minute, the cigarette would be Out. There is proof enough that chloro/chlorofluorocarbons creep along the ground, can't "float" up into the ozone layer. DuPont, Dow and others create rumors to sell upgrade refrigerants and systems. Like an arms dealer inventing a war.174.18.41.13 (talk) 01:39, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes freons are heavier than air. The result is that they get up there very slowly. That is why it takes years from the end of production until the ozone layer recovers. Note that oxygen is heavier than nitrogen, but is mostly mixed in the atmosphere. Otherwise, all the oxygen would sink, and the nitrogen float. Gah4 (talk) 02:30, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

And at sea level, we would have a layer of pure carbon dioxide. What mixes up the different gases is partly the fact that individual molecules are moving at high speed, and partly the effect of turbulence caused by the earth's rotation and temperature variations. Mhkay (talk) 09:48, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Undoing the Redirect

The List of Refrigerants mentions the word Freon only once. After looking through that article, I had no idea what a Freon was. With this page, at least the users will understand what the long list of chemicals represents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Olego (talk • contribs) 19:59, 14 July 2007

Thank you for this. Quirkie 20:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Freon?????

no one mentioned that this is a caustic gas

Not true. See what the article says, which is more or less accurate (though a better ref needs to be added). Reify-tech (talk) 00:50, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Changed redirect

Freon is a brand name of halocarbon chemical compounds by DuPont. It is not a single substance and there are many products under that brand name. Although most are CFCs, not all are. Freon 23® is an HFC, therefore I changed the re-direct to refrigerant. See: http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/en_US/products/Freon/Freon23.html Cantaloupe2 (talk) 22:07, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Reverting redirect again

Freon is a registered trade name for DuPont halocarbon products. Every Freon contains fluorine and carbon. Some contains Chlorine as well. By definition CFCs mean chlorofluorocarbon and as not every Freon is a CFC, it is incorrect to do so. See my previous comment. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 02:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Not all Freons contain Fluorine. They all contain halogens. Examples include, but are not limited to, Freon-10, Freon-20, Freon-30 and Freon-40, all of which contain Chlorine, but no Fluorine and Freon-40B1, which contains Bromine, but not Fluorine. 137.224.252.27 (talk) 14:07, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Freon is a Dupont trademark, so it means what they say it means. Specifically, if they don't sell something called Freon-10, you can't take a chemical and decide to call it Freon-10 based on the numbering system that they use for others. It is common to call refrigerants following the Dupont numbering, but not produced by them, with the R- notation. If they are not refrigerants, they won't have an R- number, though. Gah4 (talk) 23:19, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

OK, it seems that Chemours is now the spinoff from Dupont that has the trademark. They also have a list in www.freon.com. Gah4 (talk) 04:57, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Freon fatalities?

• A Dear Abby story that garnered attention against the gas, without the ozone layer concern, was that a married couple reported their kid died, not from illegal drugs, smoking, extramarital sex, reckless driving or any of the usual killers, but from inhaling Freon. Is that possible, outside of working in a job where one would process and trap the gas? 129.174.252.90 (talk) 18:52, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Without a specific reference, there is little more to be said. Reify-tech (talk) 00:50, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

If you inhale any oxygen displacing gas long enough, you will die. Without CO2 build-up, the body doesn't react. Helium and nitrogen will do that, too. Not just a quick whiff, but somewhat longer. Gah4 (talk) 22:55, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

It seems that some people intentionally inhale just about any gas for a high, often due to reduced oxygen levels. While not an illegal drug, it is still substance abuse. Gah4 (talk) 23:30, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

toxicity?

The article says moderately toxic. Not knowing the actual scale, I thought they were usually considered low toxicity. (Not counting oxygen displacement above, which it not toxicity, but loss of oxygen). Gah4 (talk) 22:56, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Freon?

I have seen cans of R-134A from DuPont and Chemours that said "Freon" right on them. I suggest U edit first page to reflect this.174.18.41.13 (talk) 01:34, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Flammability?

The introduction states that Freons are nonflammable. But Freon 40 is flammable, according to its introductory text. Could someone a bit better informed than me please revise the wording? 137.224.252.27 (talk) 14:14, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

There is no Freon 40. Some people take the Dupont (now Chemours) numbering system and extend it, but that doesn't make those compounds Freons. Yes chloromethane is flammable, and might be used as a refrigerant. Gah4 (talk) 05:18, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

generic trademark

Is there a WP:RS that Freon is a generic trademark? Gah4 (talk) 05:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello, you can always add the {{Citation needed}}-tag in an article if you would like to see additional references. I added a reference for your convenience SpamHunters (talk) 09:46, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Definition

The lede paragraph says "These include the chlorofluorocarbons...". What does "these" refer to? What exactly is the relationship of Freon to CFCs - are they overlapping categories?

Also, I don't think we need the aside about acetone being used for nail varnish remover.

Technically, it was a trademark of DuPont, and now of Chemours. If they say it is Freon then it is, otherwise it isn't. The early Freons are chlorofluorocarbons and hydrofluorochlorocarbons. More recently hydrofluorocarbons. Most often those are refrigerants, and generically labeled with R- numbers, corresponding to the number Chemours calls a Freon. Gah4 (talk) 09:51, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Additional uses

In the 80s, we dipped machine parts into vats of freon to clean them during maintenance. That's not a listed use so I thought I'd mention it. No idea when that started, sorry. 46.69.151.178 (talk) 07:53, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Freon TF was popular for that use. It is liquid at room temperature and atmospheric pressure, unlike most used as refrigerants. It has its own article, but could be listed here. Gah4 (talk) 03:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

article was not self-consistent.

The article mixed HFC and HCFC, so pick one! Gah4 (talk) 23:53, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

OK, recent edits still seem to confuse things. As well as I know it, it is chlorine containing compounds that are ozone depleting. Mostly CFCs, and less so HCFCs, as the latter are less stable, and often destroyed before they get to the ozone layer. HFCs have no Cl, so should not be ozone depleting. They are greenhouse gases, and are being phased out for that reason. Gah4 (talk) 02:08, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Also, nowhere is "CFC" linked, or even defined. (Or, did someone delete the CFC link and definition?) What the heck is "CFC?" All the kids here using WP, we just expect them to guess. 128.95.172.170 (talk) 18:31, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Air Quality

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 3 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Blainemoore04 (article contribs).

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