Talk:Numerus clausus

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[Untitled]

could someone translate back the Ivrit informations from he.wikipedia.org? --grin 10:27, 22 Sep 2003 (UTC)

OK, I did it. David.

Thanks, David. Much better than my original! :-) -grin

This article has quite a peculiar slant. The term Numerus clausus (sometimes abbreviated as NC) is quite common today in German-speaking countries. While in Austria there are no restrictions for students who have passed their Matura exams, at German universities such restrictions are reality. See, for example, this page issued by the Freie Universität Berlin. I'm not that knowledgeable about how this system works in Germany but it certainly has to be added to this article. --KF 22:14, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I have to agree. In Spain, Numerus clausus refers to the fact that the various faculties in a university restrict the number of incoming students to however many they think they can manage. What faculty a student is admitted to is determined by a combination of their university entry examination grade and baccalaureate grade. here is a Spanish FAQ about it. — Miguel 00:53, 2004 May 3 (UTC)

I added something on the situation in Germany. Someone else might tackle Spain. By the way, the second and third external link are rather unenlightening. Burschik

I just changed one number in the German part of the article, as 6.0 is the worst grade you can get, but you don't pass th exams with grades worse than 4.0. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.141.157.55 (talk) 18:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy Preference

"Between 1950 and 1955, the Bronx High School of Science (whose student body historically includes a large percentage of Jews) had only seven students admitted to Yale, while Phillips Academy Andover, although nowhere near as academically selective, had 275." I don't know a whole lot about Phillips Andover but they seem pretty selective. If no one has any objections I'm going to remove the phrase "although nowhere near as academically selective"

I removed the whole sentence since it was unsourced anyways. --Tom 12:22, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citations needed

I taged a few areas, but it seems that there is alot of unsourced/original research material in this article. --Tom 17:55, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

if anyone can bring an exact citation and english source to numerus clausus in iraq, i'd be happy. there's a hebrew one at http://www.babylonjewry.org.il/new/hebrew/nehardea/21/5.htm . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.228.215 (talk) 18:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The section on Poland has no citations at all. I doubt this is true information. I tried but failed to validate it externally. Just wanted to make users aware... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.38.173 (talk) 20:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Valid external links?

These do not appear to meet the external link guidelines. I have moved them here to see if there is consensus to move any one or more back. -- The Red Pen of Doom 01:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links?

The Raoul Wallenberg archive index on Numerus clausus (English)
Numerus clausus
article on admission by lottery to studies having a numerus fixus in the Netherlands
(timeline, English)
Hungary
Numerus clausus against Jews and the effects: Czarist Russia, Soviet Union, Poland, Romania, Hungary, USA (from Encyclopaedia Judaica 1971)

Discussion

The following remarks pertain to the portion entitled "2.3 Numerus clausus in the United States".

There are many problems with this section, external links prominent among them. A tremendous number of unsupported assertions (such as those beginning "Corresponding quotas..." and "The most common method...") are found throughout. The article reads like agitprop and lacks material and/or academic foundations.

Where external links *are* provided, they tend to be (academically) substandard: Malcolm Gladwell's New Yorker brief, for example, is a distinctly secondary source and highly editorialized; Geoffrey Kabaservice's "The Birth of a New Institution" is an entirely unsupported essay in a college alumni magazine. Although both essays are reasonably cogent and make for entertaining reading, neither is remotely academic.

The section reads as though it were written by someone with an axe to grind. We can do better. ConradArchguy (talk) 05:51, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

German Section

The section on Germany, with regard to the percentage of places awarded to students whose marks are good enough to gain entry via NC, contains significant errors.

The ZVS website (www2.zvs.de/index.php?id=259) states that 20% of places are awarded via NC, 20% to those who have waited the required time, and 60% for everybody else.

                  Die Studiengänge werden zu je 20 Prozent nach den Abiturbesten, 20 Prozent nach der Wartezeit und 60 Prozent in einem Auswahlverfahren der Hochschulen vergeben.

The German language version of this article also states this. 62.180.172.211 (talk) 19:30, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That is the new rules. The article has been outdated. I changed it. May be it has to be changed again soon, because a lot of people are not pleased with the new rules.-- Greatgreenwhale (talk) 19:12, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By the way how would one translate Abitursbeste, would "students who graduated with a GPA the put them in the top 20 percent of their class" make sense?.-- Greatgreenwhale (talk) 19:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hungarian Section

The "White terror" was only from the fall of the Hungarian Soviet Republic till December, 1921, and was reaction on the Red terror. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomtyi (talk • contribs) 07:17, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Numerus clausus in Hungary

How do you (or anyone) reconcile that "although the text of the law did not use the term "Jew"", still "that policy is often seen as the first Anti-Jewish Act of twentieth century Europe". Is n't that statement against logic? Also, if the jewish population in Hungary at the time was around 6% but the Jewish students around 15% that fact by itself should be enough proof that the "numerus clausus" did not intend to discriminate against the Jewish population but rather restore even representation for the entire population regardless of ethnic background. Affirmative action in th US is not seen as a discrimination against non Blacks, why everytime a government policy is perceived by the Jewish population as against them, we have to cry "anti-semitism" and must find some one at fault. Finally, just because some (who are they btw?) consider this 1920s Hungarian policy the first Anti-Semitic act, it does not necessarily have to be, right? Is Wikipedia more about the facts or the factoids? Can you answer please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.135.94.29 (talk) 05:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is a difference between

a limitation of the number of students of a certain group; note that even with 15%, they were still a minority on the universities and there would have to be proof that without such a rule their admission or presence would be disadvantageous to other students;
improving the education level of certain minority group with a disadvantaged position in society by setting a minimum number of students who are admitted; because this number is still a minority, it does not have a very negative on other people who apply.

I hope your remarks are caused by ignorance. Bever (talk) 16:50, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing about Asian Quota at UC Berkeley and other schools in place in much more recent times?

Is this not the right article for this subject?--Jrm2007 (talk) 09:50, 10 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is. Feel free to add it. Zezen (talk) 12:57, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

India

We need to write more about Mandal Commission numerus clausus based on caste/race. Zezen (talk) 12:57, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Switzerland

I am trying to put some references but it keeps on giving me errors whereas the same type of reference elsewhere poses no issues:

the following code: <ref name="Reference-CH">{{cite web |url=https://www.swissuniversities.ch/en/services/medical-studies/faq/ |title=FAQ - Qualifying examination |author= |website="https://www.swissuniversities.ch/"}}</ref>.
gives this error and I don't understand why (it works perfectly under section Hungary: "FAQ - Qualifying examination". "https://www.swissuniversities.ch/". External link in |website= (help)

The entire section's code would look like this:

===Switzerland===

The introduction of the numerus clausus in Switzerland has limited the access to the medical studies at the universities. At all universities of the German-speaking part of Switzerland, the students need to have a high score on an aptitude test that comprises logical and spatial thinking and text understanding skills<ref name="Reference-CH">{{cite web |url=https://www.swissuniversities.ch/en/services/medical-studies/faq/ |title=FAQ - Qualifying examination |author= |website="https://www.swissuniversities.ch/"}}</ref>.

The universities in the western, French-speaking part of Switzerland did not decide to introduce a numerus clausus. Instead, these universities provide unrestricted access to the first-year curriculum in medicine; and the best first-year students are allowed to further their medical studies at the same or at another university<ref name="Reference-CH" />.

In other popular faculties like psychology or journalism, there are also aptitude tests—but they concern only a single university.

Netherlands

The article mentions the Netherlands as a country which had anti-Jewish quota. I suppose this relates to the measures during German occupation. Saying it bluntly like this, is a bit confusing. Bever (talk) 16:52, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Un-sourced and poorly sourced information

I've reverted - as the second paragraph is completely un-sourced and advocates/justifies the antisemitic policy of numerus clausus. The first paragraph is sourced to a PhD student writing in Polish (unclear that this was actually published - might be a thesis of some sort) - per WP:NOENG we prefer English language sources of equal or higher quality - which in this case clearly exist. I'll also note that the Polish student seems to be cherry-picked. Icewhiz 13:07, 26 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Poland

The period 1926-1935 is ignored here. Some editors apply their Growing antisemitism ideology. The period when the antisemitism doesn't grow are omitted. If it's not bias, what is it?

Polish peasants were generally uneducated during several generations. The US administration supports Afroamerican students rather than to limit the number of WASP ones. The government of Poland areound 1935 wasn't so smart.

Xx236 (talk) 14:41, 27 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]