Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Martin Oei

Martin Oei was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete

Martin Oei

Please also refer to discussion at Wikipedia Chinese, or a translation of the discussion by Google. (translation doesn't work for me; enter Google language tools then cut and paste first link to translation tool; to be honest it told me almost nothing other than that they probably had a VfD on the same topic. Mozzerati 14:41, 2004 Dec 5 (UTC)).

Comments

He is not famous in the English media, try search by his Chinese name.

I am Martin Oei. I happy to join English Wikipedia. As a volunteer for Wikipedia, I suggest the following principles to decide whether keep this item or not.

If English Wikipedia has any item about Albert Cheng's, a famous radio host in Hong Kong, I suggest English Wikipedia keep "Martin Oei" as well because I play important role in the conflict between Commercial Radio and Albert Cheng in Albert Cheng's contract termination. Albert Cheng's incident is very important in free of speech in Hong Kong.

Could Martinoei please add your involvement in the incident under Albert Cheng's entry? - 202.61.114.69

This is no problem. I will try to translate it in English. Martinoei

When will this be done?

If English Wikipedia does not have anything about Albert Cheng, please delete "Martin Oei" in English Wikipedia. This item is useless for English audience.

Both English and Chinese are official languages of Hong Kong. Quite a number of people in Hong Kong speak only English and do not speak Cantonese / Mandarin. They have to rely on the English media. - 202.61.114.69

Chinese wikipedia keeps my name in the wikipedia because of Albert Cheng. I want the user of Wikipedia can fully understand the reason. I don't want put any advertisment in Wikipedia.--Martinoei 17:16, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Martin Oei claims that he played an important role in a conflict of contract of a program host in a radio station in Hong Kong. However there is no objective prove for this (esp., how important was it?), and there is no a single piece of information mentioning this in his page under his own edit. His defence brings more questions than answers. As a result there is no question to delete the page from the entire Wikipedia if the foundation reason is so weak.

Could Martinoei please add your involvement in the incident under Albert Cheng's entry on Wikipedia English? - 202.61.114.69
extracted from Albert Cheng's listing on Wikipedia Chinese: "員工大會之後《光明頂》節目的嘉賓主持之一，本身亦為時事評論員，以及《風波裡的茶杯》獨立監察員，商業電台研究員黃世澤即時向商台請辭。" , FYI.

It seems that the same anon from 202.61.*.* has created the article in question, faked the death of Mr. Oei in that article, tried to cast multiple "keep" votes here, and at least twice edited other's message here to masquerade his IP and nasty tricks (see the history of this discussion). I have just reverted one of his edits to other's comments. That anon should not be Mr. Oei himself (the IP of the latter is likely to be 202.71.233.211). -Hlaw 06:53, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I admire the user of the above paragraph who spent time bringing out more facts.

This is the totally defamation speech. I request to delete it. --Martinoei 09:32, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

A Chinese speaking wikipedian has checked the Chinese version of the page for me. There is no extra information there and nothing to clearly confirm the truth of this page; in particular no pages. Although I support the notion that if the page is important on Chinese Wikipedia then it's worth keeping here, I don't believe that we could ever verify this page from English sources. The most likely thing we need is a mention on the Albert Cheng page. Mozzerati 14:41, 2004 Dec 5 (UTC)

Votes

Delete*Non-notable jguk 11:37, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Delete. I heard about this guy but he is only a person who promotes himself a lot (about his background, his nationality and his political stance) in restricted web community. It is unreasonable to classify him as a famous person. Keeping him in Wikipedia will set an example and many who talks a lot in web forums will create their personal web page in Wikipedia.

added by 218.57.82.199 01:21, 2004 Dec 1

Delete. Only 33 results on Google for "Martin Oei" Jewbacca 21:14, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

Keep -- by 114.61.115.205

This "114.61.115.205" seems to have been faked by the same person at the "202.61.11*.*" range to hide himself. [1] The same anon appears to be the creator of the article in question. -Hlaw

Delete as non-notable unless his recent death was notable ;-) - Drstuey 13:37, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Delete. Probably locally famous, but no evidence of wider notability. Geogre 15:22, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Delete: It seems he simply want to self-promote himself via Wikipedia. He also have another wikipedia page in Chinesefor the same purpose. --Phantomathkg 20:51, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

N.B. this is a legit vote on the old version of the page. but the user has only one edit which is this vote.

Please make the fair comment. I think you made defamation comment. --202.71.233.211 17:20, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Delete papers would need to be referenced; otherwise it's just vanity Mozzerati 23:32, 2004 Nov 28 (UTC)

Delete it is only an advertisment. this guy IS NOT a famous one in both Hong Kong / international. (syaoran, user of the wiki zh version)

user was not logged in and edited from 221.127.213.55 (as he suggested himself) since I seem to be counting I'll count this one too even though I think the point is valid. Mozzerati 21:08, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)

Keep if this page has to be deleted, what about the Chinese version? there shouldn't be two standards for deletion over the two versions. xxxx

Let us consult him at his own page xxxx

The article says he died 2 days ago (though there are user contributions on that page dated the 28th) jguk 21:24, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

A anonymous wikipedia user put the fake information. I have corrected it. --202.71.233.211 17:20, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

~~last two~~ comments marked xxx from anons in the same 202.61.*.* range. Yes, we probably should delete the Chinese Version. If you speak Chinese could you please list it for deletion on the Chinese Wikipedia. Mozzerati 21:08, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)

Somebody did it but Martinoei opposed. - 202.61.114.69

Please don't intervene the editorial policy of Chinese wikipedia. The user of Chinese wikipedia have to take care the need of audience from Hong Kong, Taiwan and mainland China.--202.71.233.211 17:20, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Delete I agree that Martin Oei is not famous in English-speaking media and the article should be deleted from en-wiki, but if you search his Chinese name 黃世澤 on Google you can find more than 1000 results. So I think... please don't intervene Chinese Wiki if you don't know Chinese, because Chinese wiki is not a replica of English wiki.--128.84.26.179 19:27, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

keep - Both English and Chinese are official languages of Hong Kong. Quite a number of people in Hong Kong speak only English and do not speak Cantonese / Mandarin. They have to rely on the English media. - 202.61.114.69

abstain: Wow! This vfd is weird! What happened to "anonymous users" can't vote??? But I would like to mention something I find worrysome: would you really delete the page on the grounds that the name or the person is not famous in English? That seems a very wrong reason to delete anything from wikipedia. So you're saying off with the articles about Chinese emperors and Thai kings? Because no one heard of their names in the West? IMHO Notable does not seem to imply notable in the West. Alfy 06:24, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

IMHO; they are not voting, but some are providing valuable input. The members of chinese wikipedia don't all have accounts on English Wikipedia, but they are probably the best qualified to comment on this VfD. It's clear that a number of these votes are the same person who wrote the article and who, to some extent is indulging in ballot stuffing. What we need is a Chinese speaker with a long history of contributions to analyse and comment. I agree that we should cater for the needs of Hong Kong residents (and in fact even non-native speakers in China etc.) but it still seems to me that someone who was involved, on the side, in another person's life only needs to be mentioned in that other person's article. Mozzerati 07:46, 2004 Dec 3 (UTC)

Keep. One of the points of Wikipedia is it is supposed to be in all languages. If there is no question that this person is notable on the Chinese Wikipedia, they are definately notable here, too. --L33tminion | (talk) 00:24, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

There is no evidence that he is notable Chinese Wikipedia apart from claims from the person who wrote the article. The only people who seem to be from Chinese Wikipedia apart from him have said that Martin Oei is not an encyclopedic topic. Mozzerati 15:29, 2004 Dec 4 (UTC)

No response from L33tminion to talk page request to verify that he believes "the person is notable on Chinese" wiki. Mozzerati 14:41, 2004 Dec 5 (UTC)

Current total excluding anon votes: 5 or 6 to delete (depending if you count Phantomathkg), one to keep.

Anon should be counted. Every vote counts and should be counted. It is against the principles of Wikipedia to exclude the voice of some people -- anon 16:34 December 5, 2004 (UTC)

From Wikipedia:Deletion guidelines for administrators#Rough consensus administrators can disregard votes .... include those ... being made anonymously (my emphasis). In this case, my suggestion to the administrator doing the deletion would be to take the comments into account, but not the votes. There were at least three votes from what seemed to be the same anon which makes them almost impossible to count safely. If you would like to be assured a vote in future VfD debates, please get an account. This actually improves your anonymity! Mozzerati 22:01, 2004 Dec 5 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.