Talk:Bourne End, Buckinghamshire

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Historically, Bourne End was a hamlet, not a village. If it has now been made into a village (in order for this to happen it needs its own parish), then please amend the article, rather than just adding a note to the bottom of the page. Francs2000 10:17, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Note for future reference: this website demonstrates that Bourne End does not have its own parish, therefore by the English standard is a hamlet, rather than a village. -- Graham  :) 13:47, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You really are talking a lot of rubbish aren't you. Whether Bourne End has a parish or not - which in fact, it does, so get your facts right - it is not the administrative arrangements of the settlement which govern the name coined to it, but it's size. You are VERY VERY wrong in saying it is a hamlet. And in fact, it never was a hamlet, but the result of joining together of several other hamlets spurred on by the railway - derived from the hamlet Bone End about half a mile away. It is a village, and some dare say it is a town now. It is the fourth largest settlement in the Wycombe district. By what standards is that a hamlet? It seems despite being at BCUC and claiming to have superior knowledge on the county you don't know a shred about Bourne End. I should - I live here. Don't make up history, please. Bob 08:40, 21 Feb 2004

WHY DO YOU EDIT THESE PAGES? You are useless. There is no winterbourne in Bourne End, it is all lies! LIES LIES LIES. The River Wye is a full flowing river throughout the whole year. If you can't get your facts correct, stop being an editor on here.

1) Read your history. The Victorian History of the County of Buckinghamshire, and also George Lipscombe's Complete History and Topography of the County of Buckingham both state Bourne End as a hamlet within the parish of Wooburn. The Gazetteer of the 1891 census published by the Buckinghamshire Genealogical Society states that Bourne End was at that time hamlet in the parish of Wooburn. The Buckinghamshire Archaeological Society and the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies in Aylesbury include Bourne End as a hamlet in the parish of Wooburn.

2) State your references. So it says somewhere else that Bourne End was not a hamlet in the parish of Wooburn? Where? Tell me where it says that, and I will consider your point of view. That you live there is not a good enough reference, 65,000 people live in my town and I expect very few of them know about its full history.

3) If you have an alteration to make to an article, make it to the article and stop adding spurious notes to the bottom of the page. These are unecnyclopedic, and will always be reverted.

4) Buckinghamshire County Council, which oversees the parish councils of the whole county, states that Bourne End does not have its own parish. Take that issue up with them and get them to change their website if they are wrong.

5) The American idea that the size of a settlement determines its type has not made its way over here. Read your law. Unless a settlement has a parish council it is normally not considered to be anything more than a hamlet. This is because traditionally (before the welfare state came into being) the poor of a village had to be looked after by the parish. I will concur and alter the text of the article to say that Bourne End is a village because of its size, but this is not the norm nationwide. Bourne End can only become a town if it receives a charter to do so. The local council can petition for one, but they can't officially call themselves a town until it has been granted.

6) The River Wye was a winterbourne at the time that Bourne End was named. Check YOUR facts.

7) The origin of the name Bourne End is as stated in the Oxford Dictionary of Place Names. If they are wrong take it up with them, not me.

8) Grow up. I am not useless, I am ready to admit I am wrong where it is proven in an adult discussion, and I don't tell lies. Oh and I didn't study history at BCUC.

Graham  :) 16:12, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

1. Those references are from two centuries ago, a long time before Bourne End expanded and became a village. It is outdated and should not be used as a basis of definition and description of a settlement, considering the changes since those periods.

2. I think by living in a settlement you would be able to determine its size, and the type of settlement it is referred to as. It is a perfectly acceptable reason. It does not matter about it’s history, as above, but in this case it’s current state. Sure, it was a hamlet, but now it’s a village. Or even a town. Take a look at the local government website if you want to see for yourself: http://www.wycombe.gov.uk/search/default.asp?step=4&pid=3564

3. This has only been done once, on the basis that the description was clearly wrong and to draw attention to it. The discuss feature was had not been recognised at that stage.

4. Indeed, Buckinghamshire County Council would recognise that there is no administrative parish council overseeing Bourne End, and that the village is split between Little Marlow and Wooburn parishes. However, under your first indications, you said a village is defined by the existence of a parish church. However, since you use such outdated material, you wouldn’t know that during the 1970s, the church in Bourne End, St. Mark’s, previously a mission church of St. Paul’s Wooburn, was given it’s own parish of Bourne End, thus Bourne End has it’s own ecclesiastical parish. I am taking this up with you, being the editor of the website, that the information you are providing is wrong.

5. It may not correspond to the now maligned and ignored principles of law concerning settlements of the middle common era, but do administrative and settlement entities nowadays? Bourne End is considered a village to all those that live there. Hedsor, despite being a parish and village according to this website, is little more than a sparcely placed hamlet. And dear old Milton Keynes, merely a village just 50 years ago, is now a town, but often admittedly referred to as a city. Please do not feel pressurised to conform to such irrelevant doctrines of the past on this subject.

6. The River Wye is a permanently flowing river now. That source you take from is out of date, and by no means should it be used to describe that which is there currently. Why the fact that the Wye may have been a winterbourne in the 19th century is any use to anyone looking at a description of Bourne End is beyond me, perhaps meaningless. The last time I checked my facts, I walked to the recreation ground. The Wye was flowing, like it always has done, all of the time. If you want clarification that it is actually flowing, consult the Environment Agency.

7. You are correct about the origins of Bourne End’s name. However there was a settlement called Bone End, which was nearer the end of the Wye, and not where the centre of the village is today, which it is derived from.

8. I commend you on making the effort to provide an encyclopædic reference to all the settlements in Buckinghamshire. However, I am just pointing out that you were incorrect with Bourne End. You might have used a worthy source but it is not relevant to today in this case. I didn’t say you studied history at Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College.

Bob 18:02, 23 Feb 2004

(Dropping the numbers idea because it's getting confusing). Ok, I conceded the fact that it's not a hamlet so we can drop that discussion here. If not you then someone else had at least twice before put the same note at the bottom of the page saying its not a hamlet, rather than amending the article itself.

I am not the editor of these pages. Sure, I created them and put a lot of my own personal research into them, but wikipedia is a public access project, and anyone is free to amend the articles as they see fit. There are administrators who will revert anything you put in that's clearly bull but as long as you are able to reference where you get your information from it's ok.

The reference of Bucks County Council is current (ie the website was last updated in January 2004) and they still state that Bourne End isn't a parish. I shall contact the relevant department when I'm at work tomorrow and ask them. It has never been my intention to state that historically a village is defined by the presence of a parish church because this is wrong. If you can point out where I've said this I will amend my original source. Historically, a village was defined by the presence of a parish council that could oversee the poor. Generally this is still the case today because the ecclesiastic rulebook hasn't been re-written on that point, and where they do exist parish councils still have responsibility for some local matters (eg planning, road naming etc).

Milton Keynes has still not received royal charter to officially call itself a city. That people call it a city is not good enough, it cannot claim city status (and all of the benefits that go with such) until given the say so by the Queen. What the locals call a place may give them a sense of identity, and I suppose today the distinction at the smaller end of the scale may be somewhat blurred, but I am sure larger settlements are still governed by royal charter as to what they are officially allowed to call themselves.

The source for the river Wye was purely in relation to the origin of the place name. I wouldn't know that it's a full flowing river now, if that is the case then put it in the article, after all I am not the editor of this page, everyone is.

You brought up my studies at BCUC in relation to my ability to write pages on historical or geographical elements of places in Bucks, therefore by proxy implying what I studied there. In fact I studied surveying at BCUC (though at the time it was just called Buckinghamshire College).

-- Graham  :) 18:29, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I live in Bourne End and I've just added some changes to expand the article a bit more. :) I hope people are OK with that, I'll change it if I've got anything wrong.

Rach (XYaAsehShalomX 20:25, 19 September 2005 (UTC))

It's fine. I've tweaked it a little but mainly fine. I took out the link to Bucks CC because that wasn't Bourne End specific by the way. -- Francs2000 01:00, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Ah, OK :) Yeah, it looks much better now, thanks for tidying it up. XYaAsehShalomX 18:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

It would be nice if the person editing the page would show some impartiality towards the drinking and eating establishments of Bourne End, and indeed be able to proof read their work correctly. I guess this falls down to me then. Maramotus 00:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, go for it, SqueakBox 00:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm unaware what the obsession is with people wanting to give The Bounty an additional mention in this article. Besides it being in an awkward location, in my opinion it's an unimpressive pub, and others are more worthy of an elevated status. It would be nice if people stopped editing it in an unencyclopaedic manner to include some advertising for it, for whatever reason.Maramotus 20:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Extra Sub Headings Suggestion

I suggest adding extra subheadings:-

Notable residents To include the existing section on Enid Blyton and others Transport To include the section on the Railways. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mariegriffiths (talk • contribs) 23:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

Feel free to add it yourself. Be bold! -- Roleplayer 19:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

PIcture

I also have a nice picture of Enid Blyton's house loaded up if someone could add it without braeking the formatting of the page EnidBlytonHouse.JPG