Talk:Tapas

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History

Just added the needed citation to the "legend" part. It's fine, but when you click the source, it will redirect you to the index page to choose your language (you choose English, of course), then you have to click on the "History" tab on the left. I tried to REF the exact history page address at least twice, but it still keeps redirecting to index. Ssredg (talk) 22:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Tapas is a myth

I can't really edit this article as I would like, because what I am about to say is original research. But my grandma is Spanish, and never heard of "tapas" till she came to England. It is true that if you order a caña in Spain, they might bring you some small piece of food that you didn't technically order, but this is a custom in all sorts of places in Europe and crucially, it isn't called "a tapa" in Spain. Well it is now, for the benefit of tourists. I just want to invite any Spanish people reading this who might have better information or a better source than my anecdotal one to edit the page. And maybe some more experienced wikipedians can suggest to me a course of action.Triangl (talk) 14:47, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If this article comes across as saying that tapas are a general tradition in all of Spain or that they are very old, then you're right. However that's not what I gather from the page. No, tapas are not an invention for tourists, I'm pretty sure of that, though of course tourism may have been a boost for their popularity. --Jotamar (talk) 00:38, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It really is a matter of where do you order a "tapa", but I am from Andalucia and can say you for sure the tapas do exist and it is not for the benefit of tourists. I don't know about tapas back when your grandma left Spain, but as of 21st century they are universally acknowledged (although with regional differences) in Spain. --Tanatarca (talk) 16:33, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Antisemitism claims

I'm moving this very dubious claim here in wait of reliable sources to back it. Even if the practice described here existed at all, it's difficult it had anything to do with tapas, which are not an specific recipe but a serving format:

It has also been claimed that tapas originated in the south of Spain during the time of the Spanish Inquisition as a means of publicly identifying conversos, Jews who had converted to Christianity. Since tapas often consist in part of ham or other non-kosher foodstuffs, the reluctance of the conversos to eat whatever tapas dish was offered to them could be taken as a tacit admission that they had not abandoned their Jewish faith, thus tapas were a tool of the Spanish Inquisition.^{[better source needed]} ^[1]

--Nirei (talk) 14:16, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I looked around and found other sources that mention that although tapas may have been influenced (or even brought) by jewish origin, they were not created as a way to detect jews (but used as such). [1] interestingly there are also other texts saying that hanging hams started as a way to show christianity...

--Klondike (talk) 05:02, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be interesting to see those other sources.

As for the documentary source for the original antisemitism claim, historian Simon Montefiori, hoster of that documentary, said on 44:50 aproximately:

"Some say that tapas was created as a way of surreptitiously testing conversos to see if they woud eat ham or other non-kosher dishes."

I don't know if a single statement starting by "some say" from just one documentary would be source enough to put that claim back to the article, so I guess we need to wait and see if there are more sources claiming the same.

EDIT: I checked the source Klondike added to this discussion. It does say that tapas were used during Inquisition as a way to find secret Jews, and it also say tapas might be of Jewish origin or influence:

"This Sephardic tradition influenced the famous Spanish custom of tapas, dining on small appetizers, that became particularly popular on Sunday afternoons after Mass when Spaniards gathered in homes and bars. With the Inquisition, hosts would sometimes test to see if any of their guests were secret Jews by serving slices of cold ham, still a popular tapa today."^[2]

But I wouldn't consider it a suitable source for this article since it doesn't say where they took that info from. It doesn't have a bibliography or source list of any kind.

I still would like to see those texts besides the Lilith magazine article claiming that hanging hams to cure started as a way to show off Christianity tho.

--VonKellcsiis (talk) 14:37, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just look for them, here is an example: https://blog.castroygonzalez.es/jamon-la-reconquista/ as I said an interesting statement but not related to the topic of the article :)

--Klondike (talk) 19:36, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

^ Sebag Montefiore, Simon (15 December 2015). "Reconquest". Blood and Gold: The Making of Spain with Simon Sebag Montefiore. Episode 2. BBC Four. Archived from the original on 11 November 2018. Retrieved 2018-10-15.
^ Barocas, Susan (Summer 2018). "When Food Betrayed the Jews". Lilith. Retrieved 18 December 2020.

Plural or singular?

The article intro should be clearer about singular vs plural forms of the word, and incidentally why the article title happens to be plural. Reify-tech (talk) 14:54, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The word tends to be used in plural since you seldom have just one. The relevant part of this page is not the particular composition of an individual tapa, which can be roughly anything that is edible, but the social and culinary culture born around the items, and the idea of this culture is better expressed with the plural. --Jotamar (talk) 09:54, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that the article title should be "Tapa", per WP:NCPLURAL. Of course, "Tapas" should then be redirected to "Tapa".

Also, the capricious usage of "tapa" vs "tapas" within the article is unexplained, and a little confusing. Should this be cleaned up to be more consistent and logical? Reify-tech (talk) 16:04, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The page uses mainly the plural form, which is consistent with what I said. --Jotamar (talk) 22:02, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Jotamar. I see nothing confusing about the article's usage of the singular or the plural forms—the verb part of the phrases they are used in makes it clear. Carlstak (talk) 22:43, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Voicing my support for continued use of plural tapas. This is by far the most common usage in English, supported by references, and has been preferred by a majority of editors for a long time (see here, for example). I don't know that this perfectly aligns with the exceptions listed in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals) although it strikes me as being akin to handcuffs. You will absolutely find singular handcuff in English but we generally refer to the thing in the plural and that is by far the most natural article title. Singular tapa in English is less common than the plural. The singular is sometimes used in defining or explaining the term, but the thing generally is referred to in the plural. -- MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫— talk 19:42, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Sebag Montefiore, Simon (15 December 2015). "Reconquest". Blood and Gold: The Making of Spain with Simon Sebag Montefiore. Episode 2. BBC Four. Archived from the original on 11 November 2018. Retrieved 2018-10-15.

[2] Barocas, Susan (Summer 2018). "When Food Betrayed the Jews". Lilith. Retrieved 18 December 2020.

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