Talk:List of cultural references in The Cantos

consistency concerns

I'm looking through this and I'm noting a number of inconsistencies in how this is presented. Some examples to which I will refer below:

• John Adams - Second President of the United States; "the man who at certain points/made us/at certain points/saved us" (Canto LXII) and one of Pound's great political heroes. - Cantos XXXI - XXXIV, L ("the revolution was in the minds of the people") , LXII - LXXI
• John Quincy Adams - Son of John Adams - Canto XLVIII
• Alexander the Great - Cantos LXXXV, LXXVI, CXIV: Enlightened rule exemplified by the fact that he paid his soldiers' debts.
• St. Ambrose – Canto LXXXVIII: Against monopolists, Canto C
• Amphion - Canto LXXXIII: Mythical founder of music. - Canto XC
• Emperor Antoninus Pius - Canto LXXXVII: Law of the sea (Lex Rhodia) – Canto LXXXVIII: Lending money at 4%, Cantos XCVII, XCVIII
• F.W. Baller – Translator of the Sacred Edict – Canto XCVIII
• Béla Bartók Pound admired his music and compared Bartók's Fifth Quartet with The Cantos as showing “the defects inherent in a record of struggle.”- Canto LXXXIV
• Thomas Hart Benton - U.S. senator who opposed the establishment of the Bank of the United States. His Thirty Years View is a key source for the Rock Drill section of The Cantos. – Cantos LXXXV – XCV

Note the differences in dash type (Thomas Hart Benton vs. John Adams, F.W. Baller vs. John Quincy Adams) the difference in the location of the reference of the Cantos (everywhere, for example John Quincy Adams vs. Alexander the Great), general inconsistency in referencing the Cantos (Amphion, St. Ambrose, and especially Antoninus Pius all confuse me) and shaky formatting in general (Béla Bartók). Could a standard be set up so that we have a goal to work toward here? Perhaps the layout should be:

• Name – Cantos that mention person in format Cantos IV-XII, L-LIII: Description of person. Famous quote 1/Specific topic 1 (Canto). Famous quote 2/Specific topic 2 (Canto).

So for example, John Adams & St. Ambrose would be:

• John Adams – Cantos XXXI-XXXIV, L, LXII-LXXI: Second President of the United States; "the man who at certain points/made us/at certain points/saved us" (Canto LXII) and one of Pound's great political heroes. "The revolution was in the minds of the people" (Canto L).
• St. Ambrose – Canto LXXXVIII, C. Against monopolists (Canto C).

I'm not sure where to start with Antoninus Pius, since I don't know what everything is referring to.

Any input would be great; I'm just trying to nail down one of the little things that will make this list look more professional and thus make it stand out even more. --Spangineer ∞ 16:06, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

What about the following:

• Name – Description of person/thing/idea. Quote 1/Specific topic 1 (Canto). Quote 2/Specific topic 2 (Canto). Other Cantos that mention person/thing/idea in format Cantos IV-XII, L-LIII.

So for example, John Adams & St. Ambrose would be:

• John Adams – Second President of the United States and one of Pound's great political heroes. "The revolution was in the minds of the people" (Canto L). "The man who at certain points/made us/at certain points/saved us" (Canto LXII). Cantos XXXI-XXXIV, LXIII-LXXI.
• St. Ambrose – Against monopolists (Canto C). Canto LXXXVIII.

This avoids mentioning any cantos twice, and the individual quote references are order. Or would you prefer something that keeps Canto order as the most important, like:

• Name – Description of person/thing/idea. Cantos in which person/thing/idea appears, e.g. IV-XII; Quote 1/Specific topic 1 (Canto XVI); Cantos in which person/thing/idea appears, e.g. XXVI-XXVIII; Quote 2/Specific topic 2 (Canto XXXV); Cantos that mention person/thing/idea, e.g. L-LIII.

So for example, John Adams & St. Ambrose would be:

• John Adams – Second President of the United States and one of Pound's great political heroes. Cantos XXXI-XXXIV; "The revolution was in the minds of the people" (Canto L); "The man who at certain points/made us/at certain points/saved us" (Canto LXII); Cantos LXIII-LXXI.
• St. Ambrose – Canto LXXXVIII; against monopolists (Canto C).

Let me know what you think. --Spangineer ∞ 10:59, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

It seems as though this discussion has been dead for a while. My interest in The Cantos has nevertheless peaked and I wish to edit like a madman. I think that Spangineer's second idea is most elegant and useful. In my editing, if I find something else to be useful, I will naturally ask for input here. Maybe someone is listening. Do-de-do. --Svengali83 (talk) 18:38, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps we could create a list of translations, separate from the main list, of the various foreign language sections by Canto. I am no expert in the languages Pound uses, but perhaps someone else is. Or does someone know of a critical text that contains the translations? I have yet to find one. And I have not looked very hard. --Svengali83 (talk) 18:45, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Organization

I'm just thinking maybe this would be better organized by Canto number, and not alphabetically. That kind of organization has more relavence to the article. What do you think? --Dmcdevit 02:53, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I considered this and rejected it as you lose the direct picture of recurrence of a particular theme across The Cantos, which is one of the key functions of the list for someone reading the list and poem together. Filiocht | Blarneyman 07:25, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Completely uncited

While the relevant sections of The Cantos the cultural allusion appears in are cited admirably, this list does not make it at all clear which claims are supported by which reference. This needs to be addressed to make sure all the attributions are accurate. Skomorokh 15:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)